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Old 03-25-2008, 09:53 PM   #31
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Originally posted by the iron horse





My translation?


I'm out of this thread.

We are talking, but not listening or trying to come to a reasoning
or understanding on this topic.


Take care


I'm just stating a fact. Not all Bible's say "thou shall not murder", most say "thou shall not kill", I'm sorry you don't realize that, but it's no reason to leave the thread.

Some important questions have been asked of you... It's kind of ashamed that you leave when you do sometimes.
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Old 03-25-2008, 10:31 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
I'm just stating a fact. Not all Bible's say "thou shall not murder", most say "thou shall not kill"
I'm doubtful whether this is true...I just checked all 19 Christian English Bible translations available at biblegateway.com, as well as the Jewish Publication Society translation, and just 3 of them (King James, American Standard, New Life--only the latter of which is less than a century old) use "kill." And frankly I have to imagine that's done out of respect for 'tradition', because it really is quite a stretch to read the Hebrew that way.

Of course, this is completely irrelevant to US gun control policy, and I've never seen anyone in here arguing that using lethal force in self-defense is always wrong anyhow; it's the cumulative consequences of widespread handgun and assault rifle availability that's the issue.
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Old 03-25-2008, 10:46 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by yolland

I'm doubtful whether this is true...I just checked all 19 Christian English Bible translations available at biblegateway.com, as well as the Jewish Publication Society translation, and just 3 of them (King James, American Standard, New Life--only the latter of which is less than a century old) use "kill." And frankly I have to imagine that's done out of respect for 'tradition', because it really is quite a stretch to read the Hebrew that way.
From my understanding this is a fairly "new" translation.

Quote:
Originally posted by yolland


Of course, this is completely irrelevant to US gun control policy, and I've never seen anyone in here arguing that using lethal force in self-defense is always wrong anyhow; it's the cumulative consequences of widespread handgun and assault rifle availability that's the issue.
Absolutely.
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Old 03-25-2008, 11:34 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar




I'm just stating a fact. Not all Bible's say "thou shall not murder", most say "thou shall not kill", I'm sorry you don't realize that, but it's no reason to leave the thread.

Some important questions have been asked of you... It's kind of ashamed that you leave when you do sometimes.
Did it apply to non-Jews?
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Old 03-25-2008, 11:35 PM   #35
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Did it apply to non-Jews?
Did you not read above?
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Old 03-26-2008, 12:42 AM   #36
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Assuming you meant with reference to ancient Israel, yes it would have applied; they would have fallen into the legal category geri toshav, resident and visiting non-Jews, which is tangentially referred to a handful of times in the 'Old Testament' and explained at more length in the Talmud. Broadly speaking, geri toshav were obligated to follow the mishpatim ('justice,' laws governing relations between individuals) and refrain from work on holidays (edot), but not to follow the chukkim ('fiat', ritual and religious observance laws). In return the mishpatim were to be observed towards them. In theory geri toshav were not allowed to worship other gods within Israel proper; in practice it's readily apparent from the amount of grousing in the 'OT' about Jews worshipping other gods that this was either not well enforced, was not in fact even the reality of Jewish beliefs at the time, or both.

But again, not relevant to US gun control laws.
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Old 03-26-2008, 01:15 AM   #37
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