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Old 06-11-2006, 02:20 PM   #1
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A whole family was murdered

Quote:
(CNN) -- Israel's prime minister on Sunday expressed regret over the deaths of seven members of a family at a Gaza beach on Friday that Palestinians say was caused by Israeli shelling.


Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas Saturday condemned the beach incident as
a "despicable massacre ... the Israeli artillery was aimed at children, women -- innocent children and women who were sitting on the seashore, on the sea beach having fun on a normal weekend.

"A whole family was murdered, all its members, by the Israeli Defense Forces," Abbas said.

News footage of disconsolate 7-year-old Huda Ghalya, who survived the killing of her family, reverberated across the globe. She, her mother, father and three siblings were having a beach picnic at the time.

"Over the weekend, serious events occurred in the Gaza Strip area. As a result of an incident which has yet to be fully inquired into, seven members of one family were killed on the Gaza beach.

"We have expressed our deep regret over the death of seven innocent civilians, we truly regret this. Defense Minister Amir Peretz has instructed that an inquiry be held into the exact circumstances of the event.

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Old 06-11-2006, 02:49 PM   #2
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Today on the radio i heard that a man had been stabbed in our area when does it end?
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Old 06-11-2006, 09:43 PM   #3
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Shades of Mohammed al-Doura perhaps
Quote:
A top Israeli general says the country’s armed forces didn’t cause the explosion that killed eight Palestinians on Friday and ended the fragile ceasefire in the region.

Hamas, which leads the Palestinian Authority parliament, blamed the deaths on Tel Aviv as its military branch resumed attacks on Israel for the first time in 16 months.

But Israeli Maj.-Gen. Yoav Galant said Sunday the military can prove it wasn’t Israeli fire that hit the beach in Gaza, killing eight people.

Galant, who commands Israel’s southern command, said Israel stopped firing 15 minutes before the explosion.
link

I must say though it was a masterful stroke of propaganda using the girl like that, top points.

The Palestinian Authority will not cooperate in any investigation either
Quote:
A Palestinian security source said Sunday that Hamas operatives had cleared the debris from the explosion which killed seven Palestinian civilians on Friday in order to frustrate the IDF's attempts to investigate the incident.

Defense Minister Amir Peretz set up an investigative committee, headed by Maj.-General Meir Calify of the Ground Forces Command, and ordered that it present its findings by Tuesday evening at latest.

Peretz also ordered a suspension of all artillery fire until the completion of the investigation, Israel Radio reported.
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Old 06-11-2006, 09:50 PM   #4
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and the Iraqis in Haditha, shot themselves in the back of the heads to make the U. S. Marines look bad, too
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Old 06-11-2006, 09:53 PM   #5
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Wow, relevent topics make for good conversation.

There are definite cases where the Palestinian Authority has used incidences of Palestinian on Palestinian violence as propaganda against the Israelis, the press went along with it and it was only well after that the truth came out, now it is a horrifying event but an investigation with the evidence on the table is a good deal more valuable than staged footage.
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Old 06-11-2006, 09:55 PM   #6
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if anything it was to make sure there can be no negotiations, while Israel continues it's disgusting land grab
as they continue to take pieces of what the world agrees should be the Palastinian homeland

Quote:
Olmert tests waters in London

By Jonathan Marcus

Diplomatic correspondent, BBC News

First Washington, then Cairo and Amman, and on Monday it is the turn of London.

Israel's new Prime Minister Ehud Olmert has taken his convergence plan on a road-tour.

He is trying to win international backing for a proposal by which - in the absence of a Palestinian partner - Israel will set de facto borders of its own making.
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Old 06-11-2006, 09:59 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Wow, relevent topics make for good conversation.

There are definite cases where the Palestinian Authority has used incidences of Palestinian on Palestinian violence as propaganda against the Israelis, the press went along with it and it was only well after that the truth came out, now it is a horrifying event but an investigation with the evidence on the table is a good deal more valuable than staged footage.
Israel has already accepted responsibility

and



Quote:
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The senior Marine sergeant in charge during an incident in Haditha, Iraq, last November, says there was no massacre of civilians, and there was no wrongdoing on the Marines' part, his attorney told CNN.
Puckett said there is more to the story than has been reported.

The military is investigating whether up to eight marines from Kilo company of the 3rd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment, killed 24 Iraqi civilians in Haditha after one of their own was killed in a roadside bombing and engaged in a cover-up. Three Marines have been relieved of their duties.

None of the Marines has been charged in the incident.

and of course
there are holocaust deniers, too.
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Old 06-11-2006, 09:59 PM   #8
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So the wipe the Jew from the face of the Earth is just joking around?

The Palestinians did not have representatives interested in peace during Arafats reign and now Hamas is in charge a mutually agreed two state solution is impossible. Unilateral disengagement is the only way (you know those land graps that involve surrendering most of the land).
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Old 06-11-2006, 10:03 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep


there are holocaust deniers, too.
And the evidence for the holocaust is well documented and the crimes investigated for the world to see.
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Old 06-11-2006, 10:07 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep


Israel has already accepted responsibility
Expression of regret does not equal admission of guilt.
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Old 06-11-2006, 10:21 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
Expression of regret does not equal admission of guilt.
"Maj.-Gen. Yoav Galant said Israeli forces stopped firing 15 minutes before the explosion, meaning Israel couldn't have been responsible."

But from the CBC:

Quote:
The military has accounted for five of the six shells it fired into Gaza, and said they didn't kill the family.

But investigators aren't sure what happened to the sixth shell. It may have fallen among the Ghalia family.

...

The uncertainty about the sixth shell undermines earlier comments Sunday, when a top Israeli general said the country's Armed Forces didn't cause the explosion.
The Palestinians are obviously using the image of that girl, but at the same time, does anyone doubt her grief is insincere?
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Old 06-12-2006, 05:19 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep
if anything it was to make sure there can be no negotiations, while Israel continues it's disgusting land grab
as they continue to take pieces of what the world agrees should be the Palastinian homeland

Hello Deep,

Actually we're doing exactly the OPPOSITE of land grabs. We're actually starting to withdraw from lands we occupied in 1967.

I'll tell you what the problem is - the world does not understand that we do not target civillians. It is truly regrettable that the Hamas terrorists place their camps and hideouts in residential areas (showing a total disregard for their own people's safety), thus causing civillian casualties.

Unlike us, the Hamas terrorists actually DO target our civillians by suicide bombings, roadside shootings and making a shooting gallery out of the southern city of Sderot (which is about an hour and a half from my home).

I am deeply grieved at the senseless death of that family and my heart goes out to the little girl (even though she's being shamelessly used for propoganda purposes).

At the same time, does anyone think about the residents of Sderot who are now living in a shooting gallery with barrages of Kasam missiles raining down on them? Does the world expect Israel to sit and do nothing while the terrorists have free reign over territories we gave back, supposedly in exchange for peace?

The terrorists launch their missiles from populated areas knowing that Israel will retaliate, thus feeding their propoganda purposes when civillians get hurt or killed. They don't give a shit about their own people, because if they did they would stop hurting them with their actions.

I remember the Palestinian propaganda machine at work a few years ago when the Israeli military had a campaign against terrorists in Gaza and the TV cameras showed a body on a stretcher covered with a Palestinian flag. The mourners were wailing and moaning and then (when the cameras weren't looking) photographs from the air showed the body "miraculously" coming to life and getting off the stretcher.....I'm not making this up.

So while I sincerely grieve for the tragic loss of life, it is just another byproduct of the terrorists actions against us.

Furthermore, The fact that there is now a major humanitarian crisis in the Palestinian Authority is not Israel's fault. They brought it upon themselves by electing a terrorist government that almost the entire world abhors. Hamas is responsible for suicide bombings and the killing of hundreds of Israelis - men, women and children. How can they possibly expect the world to ignore their agenda and to embrace them as a regular government as if they DIDN'T have blood on their hands?

Israel has offerred humanitarian assistance directly to the people (bypassing the Hamas government) but this assistance was refused.

Every single action that Israel has taken has been in self defence following suicide bombings and missile attacks. You may argue that there is no justification for the killing of innocent civillians and you are right, however, as I mentioned, the terrorists purposely cause casualties on their side to serve their own twisted purposes.

We are currently investigating the true cause of this tragic event in Gaza (with no help from the Palestinian side) and believe me that we will do everything to bring the truth to light so that justice is done.
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Old 06-12-2006, 09:34 PM   #13
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Quote:
The IDF probe investigating the deaths of seven Palestinian civilians, caused by an explosion on a beach in Gaza on Friday evening, concluded that chances were slim that the accident was caused by IDF shelling.

According to Channel 2, the findings, expected to be formally released on Tuesday, showed an inconsistency between the shrapnel found in the body of one of the wounded babies and the metal used in IDF artillery. Moreover, the investigation noted the absence of a large enough crater at the site of the explosion, as would be expected if an IDF shell had landed there.

The third observation casting doubt on the possibility of IDF shelling was the gap between the time when the army shot the artillery and when the commotion on the beach began. According to the probe’s findings, several minutes past after the shelling, before the Palestinians on the beach reacted. ...

The leading theory currently entertained, suggested that an explosive charge, buried by Palestinians on the Gaza beach to prevent Israeli infiltration, was behind the explosion.

Throughout the whole investigation, army officials complained about the lack of Palestinian cooperation. Unconfirmed reports further suggested attempts by Palestinians to remove shrapnel from the bodies of the wounded, treated in Israeli hospitals, thus impeding the investigation.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1150035838991&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull
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Old 06-12-2006, 10:02 PM   #14
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I do look at the Jeruselum Post from time to time

I also look at Haaretz.com

where I read this

Quote:

We came, we shelled, we killed

By Danny Rubinstein

The bloodshed on the Gaza beachfront late last week was not the result of a tragic error. It was clear to everyone that in the exchanges of fire in the narrow Gaza Strip, where the population density is among the highest in the world, it was just a matter of time before an entire family was hit. The Palestinian response was also known in advance. More and more attacks - and the number of Israeli victims that can be expected in the near future - will only be determined by luck, for better or worse.

It is a known fact that there is no military solution to the overall Palestinian-Israeli conflict. But now it is becoming increasingly clear that there is no military solution for putting an end to the Qassam rocket attacks. The Israel Defense Forces has struck at the rocket-launching crews and their commanders; it has destroyed the bridges and the roads leading to the launching areas; it has carried out what it calls "exposure" activities and has destroyed farmland; it has bombed the launching sites, over and over. The army has dispersed fliers warning the population and threatening to destroy entire neighborhoods and towns. And let us also remember the IDF's "war on the lathes" that targeted the metalworking shops in Gaza. Dozens of Palestinian lathes were bombed and destroyed due to the suspicion that they were being used to manufacture rockets.

None of this helped. On the contrary: There are many more rockets and missiles in Gaza today than in the past. The know-how, the means and the capabilities to launch them against targets in Israel have only improved and become more sophisticated. And there is no doubt that the continued deterioration of the security situation will only sharpen Palestinian martial skills and broaden their activity in this area. We can even assume that sooner or later, in the absence of a diplomatic option, the motivation, the means and the know-how for launching missiles will also reach the West Bank.

Since Mahmoud Abbas was elected Palestinian Authority chairman, a year and a half ago, barely a day has gone by during which he has not called for negotiations. It is true that he is not fighting the Hamas and terrorism with particular determination, but this is no excuse for not talking with him. It has already been four years since the Arab initiative was presented at the Beirut summit, which called for normalization with Israel. The terms are obviously difficult to meet, but Israeli statesmen have not even bothered to relate to the initiative. On the agenda now stands the so-called prisoners' document, which has met only with rejection and derogatory responses from the Prime Minister Ehud Olmert and his spokesmen. And there are also the decisions of the Hamas government to permit contacts with the Israeli government on practical matters - economics, finance, agriculture, electricity, health, tourism.

The Palestinians' demands are tough, obviously. It would have been a lot simpler if they accepted ours: for example, that greater Jerusalem in its entirety - with Ma'aleh Adumim in the east, Givat Ze'ev in the north and Betar in the south - officially become the capital, solely, of Israel. Among the Palestinians, across the board, the general view is that the Israelis know quite well that the Palestinians would never accept such a demand.



It is therefore in Israel's clear interest not to start any talks with any Palestinians - not with moderates and particularly not with the radicals. On the contrary, it is best that the Palestinians remain extremists because then no one will ask the government of Israel to negotiate with them. How do we ensure that the Palestinians remain radical? We simply strike at them, over and over, via assassinations and incessant bombings, until they drive any thought of supporting a peace policy out of their minds.

It is possible that this is mistaken, distorted thinking. However, whoever follows the mood in the territories, the press, the statements of various spokesmen and the interviews on local radio and Arab television stations - will quickly conclude that this is the overwhelming thinking among Palestinians from Rafah in southern Gaza to Jenin in the northern West Bank. And until Israel does not announce a change of policy, a desire for a complete cease-fire and a genuine willingness for dialogue - this is how the situation will continue.
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Old 06-12-2006, 10:46 PM   #15
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Israelis and Palestinians have equal freedom to criticise the Israeli government.
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