Angela Harlem said:
You've made some interesting points, but this is one in particular. Re: not society deciding, but the individual. I dont totally agree with what you said about reactions and someone being opposed to simply look away, as I dont believe it is entirely that easy. Society as a whole is not familiar with nudity being common place so we do tend to notice anyone who stands out, and we could and are physically able to look away if uncomfortable with seeing a bare breast, but it will sure as buggery stand out.
I'm not saying it won't stand out...in this society, it most surely will, as opposed to societies where people walk around with parts of their body showing on a regular basis. I just feel that they shouldn't have to change how they dress simply because of how some people could possibly react to them. While a lot of people would be surprised by seeing a nude body, there's always going to be those who won't give it a second thought, either. And so I just feel each person should dress however they feel is appropriate for themselves, and it's up to everyone else to decide how they want to react to the body. They can be bothered by the outfit (or lack thereof) or they can just shrug and go about their business. But I just don't agree with completely stopping people from putting on
their own body whatever they want to put on it. That's all.
Besides that, one reason why some people in this country go so far in terms of nudity is because they know it'll shock people. If you don't give them that satisfaction, that'll lessen the amount of nudity more than outright banning it will.
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
As a society we conform an awfully large amount and most people dress alike, not only to the extent of being 'generally' covered up, but even further to the point where on weekends you see most kicking around in jeans and 9-5 on weekdays attire is also uniformal in it's own way. This might be a bit of a chicken or the egg argument as what society is used to is not really what this is about - but did this become law because we don't have familiarity and comfort with exposed boobs (in day-to-day), or did we lose familiarity because it was decided too much exposure is not good? Either way, society now shies away from totally free expression and nudity/over exposure. What we have is a society filled with (for the most part) women who choose not to uncover themselves and coincidently (?) a law which matches that. Now, as the law doesn't include men, this is absolutely unfair. Surely people who believe in equal rights cannot disagree with that, and for the inequality it is worth arguing over - we need to remove inequality entirely, and that includes what might appear to be asinine debates like this one. But back to the point, is society even ready or willing to follow through on this? It would be simple enough to remove this law or to ammend it so that the cover-up policy extends to both sexes, but at the end of the day, we wont see much change in how we all dress anyway as we're all sheep. We love to conform. Society's mores are very strong I think.
I think you're quite right with what you're saying about society-conformity is a very big thing for a lot of people, it's a comfort thing and all that, they don't feel so weird that way 'cause everyone else is just like them. And that thinking can have its good and bad aspects to it.
As for how to solve this problem, like I said, I do think the law should be fixed so that both sexes can either dress in whatever various stage of clothing works for them, or that the law should require men to cover up if women have to as well. Either way, though, you're right, there'll be conformity regardless.
Originally posted by Saracene
Like it or not, clothes aren't just about covering yourself up; it's also a form of language we use to communicate. And there are conventions in clothes just like there are conventions in the language. If a lawyer showed up at the court wearing nothing but hotpants and tanktop, it'd be about just as acceptable as her addressing the judge with, "yo dude how is it hanging?" Different societies may have differing conventions, and conventions may evolve over the time, but no society can operate without them.
I know. And I think that's a shame, as there are people who wear suits and ties to their jobs, but that doesn't automatically mean that they're going to be a good, respectable person, just as someone who wore hotpants and a tanktop could wind up making a really impressive case and be a really respected member of their firm and everything. And of course, vice versa as well. I guess some of my feelings on this also kinda date back to hearing people call a girl a "whore" or whatever because of how she's dressed, too-again, like you said, it's society's conventions and all that, but that kind of thing still personally bugs me because how you dress shouldn't determine what kind of a person you are, what your sex life is like, what kind of attitudes you have on things, etc., etc.-at least, that's my view. But society has its feelings about this whole subject regardless, you're certainly right about that.
Personally, I like what sulawesigirl4 had to say about the issue.
Angela
...) in regards to the lust post. Why exactly is lust such a bad thing, anyway? 
But I just wanted to make one comment. Both in the small mountain village where I was raised in Indonesia as well as generally here in Malian society where I am now living, bare breasts are a total non-starter. Women feed their children, go about their work (which, it should be mentioned is HARD physical labor) in the hot sun totally without shirts and no one blinks an eye, stares or commits rape on the spot. Breasts in America are far too sexualized. I personally don't see what the big deal is.
