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Old 03-04-2005, 02:12 PM   #151
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
If it were up to people like you, anything would be legal.
Correction: things would be legal so long as nobody else was being harmed or killed or forced to do something in the process. Breasts have done none of those three things to anybody. It's just a body part, and it only means something to those who allow it to mean something to them.

Angela
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Old 03-04-2005, 02:28 PM   #152
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But, as we have discussed before, we have very divergent views on what constitutes harm.
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Old 03-04-2005, 04:37 PM   #153
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
But, as we have discussed before, we have very divergent views on what constitutes harm.
I'm talking physical harm-cuts, bruises, broken bones, that kind of thing. Or something that, should somebody attempt it, would cause death to other people. And a topless person just going about their business does not do any of that stuff.

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Old 03-04-2005, 04:53 PM   #154
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Quote:
Originally posted by Moonlit_Angel


I'm talking physical harm-cuts, bruises, broken bones, that kind of thing. Or something that, should somebody attempt it, would cause death to other people. And a topless person just going about their business does not do any of that stuff.

Angela
Surely you would consider emotional or psychological damage in your definition of "harm".
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Old 03-04-2005, 04:59 PM   #155
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
Surely you would consider emotional or psychological damage in your definition of "harm".
No, because every person is different when it comes to what emotionally or psychologically harms them. Every person, if hit hard enough, will get a bruise (except for those extremely rare situations where a person is born without the ablity to bruise or feel pain or something along that line). But not every person will be emotionally affected by the same images and words. Not every person would be emotionally affected by seeing a breast.

Angela
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Old 03-04-2005, 05:08 PM   #156
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So, someone could stalk you (creating fear, apprehension, etc.), but never touch you, and you would not be harmed?
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Old 03-04-2005, 05:43 PM   #157
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Does anyone think there would be more occasions of inappropriate behaviour if women were permitted to walk around topless? If laws were changed there could possibly be some women who would take the opportunity to do so, and I imagine there would be a bit of a media buzz if the laws were ever changed, and I wonder if that would lead to more instances of harrassment, stalking even, perhaps assault. It must always be the offender who wears responsibility and that wont change, but I do wonder if it the sheer increase alone in this kind of thing should be enough for government to say it's not on and therefore everyone should cover up.

I really appreciate what you have been saying on this Moonlit_Angel. And agree with a lot of what you say, but I think in the end for equality we should look more at changing freedom for men to reach that. I think we'd all hate to live in a world where perversion is more common place and it's all fair and good to feel and truly believe it is never the woman's fault, as it should never be, but we cannot allow opportunity for harm.
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Old 03-04-2005, 06:58 PM   #158
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I understand what you're saying, Angela (and thanks for the support and appreciation)-yeah, believe me, I certainly wouldn't wish harm on people, either-I think it sucks that there is still that mentality in some ways that if a woman dresses a certain way she's asking for whatever a guy does to her, but sadly, it still does exist.

However, people mentioned Europe allowing for nude beaches, and then there was sulawesigirl4's post about her area of the world that allowed for that stuff, and she said that there wasn't any increase in that kind of behavior there, and I don't recall ever hearing about big outbreaks of harassment in Europe either (any of our European friends have the answer for that one?), so there is that to consider, too.

Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
So, someone could stalk you (creating fear, apprehension, etc.), but never touch you, and you would not be harmed?
I'd be creeped out, no doubt about that, but until it gets to the point where it's pretty obvious they could do physical harm to me or to anyone I know, or they're totally invading my privacy, which is violating one of my rights I'm guaranteed, just following me around isn't cause for being punished. Besides, even stalking definitions can vary from person to person-how far the person has to follow them in order for it to be considered stalking (some could say just following them down the street is stalking, some could say it's not such until they start invading their home, etc.).

Angela
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Old 03-04-2005, 07:00 PM   #159
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
So, someone could stalk you (creating fear, apprehension, etc.), but never touch you, and you would not be harmed?
would she be topless?
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Old 03-04-2005, 09:07 PM   #160
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I think it interesting the point that Sula made.....in relation to the line that NBC is going.

Apparently the places she has lived and worked have manages to not have too many damaged or injured people walking around because of this.
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Old 03-04-2005, 09:51 PM   #161
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep
you might consider spending a wekend at a nudist camp
to overcome your areolaphobia
Sure... after all, every view I have is from my irrational fears.

Why not require every US citizen to do the same thing?
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Old 03-05-2005, 08:20 AM   #162
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Quote:
Originally posted by Moonlit_Angel
I'd be creeped out, no doubt about that, but until it gets to the point where it's pretty obvious they could do physical harm to me or to anyone I know, or they're totally invading my privacy, which is violating one of my rights I'm guaranteed, just following me around isn't cause for being punished. Besides, even stalking definitions can vary from person to person-how far the person has to follow them in order for it to be considered stalking (some could say just following them down the street is stalking, some could say it's not such until they start invading their home, etc.).

Angela
But we are trying to define "harm" here. So, if you were writing the anti-stalking law, you would require a showing of imminent physical harm.

Based on the forgoing, it sounds like an "invasion of privacy" would require someone to physically enter your home.
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Old 03-05-2005, 09:17 AM   #163
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
But we are trying to define "harm" here. So, if you were writing the anti-stalking law, you would require a showing of imminent physical harm.
Yeah.

Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Based on the forgoing, it sounds like an "invasion of privacy" would require someone to physically enter your home.
That would definitely be a part of it, yes.

Angela
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Old 03-05-2005, 09:57 AM   #164
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
You're a big fan of outrage.
No

Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe

I never said men aren't responsible. You're exaggerating on a false assumption that I somehow believe men are not responsible for their actions.
You said you agreed with the notion that it's up to the women and society. Go back and look at the post you agreed with.

Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe

Read my post that stated if you want equality, then bar men from not wearing shirts.
That's even more ridiculous.

Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe

You either have a major problem with conformity,
Everyone should. Conformity is mindless.
Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe

or you feel obligated to take the hard liberal side no matter what the issue is. Even if it's a stupid issue.
No.
Why is this liberal? Because it's about women's rights?
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Old 03-05-2005, 10:29 PM   #165
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
[B]Conformity is mindless.[B]
This has to be the most unintelligent comment I've heard in a long time. Why is the military so coordinated? Because they enforce conformity, not rebellion.

Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
You said you agreed with the notion that it's up to the women and society. Go back and look at the post you agreed with.
You arrived at this conclusion by means of exaggeration. I believe in imposing the men with large fines for infidelity. Both are morally responsible for their actions, for the last freaking time.

Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Why is this liberal? Because it's about women's rights?
It's liberal because it ignores the fact that the law was made to suit the condition of our society, and is centered on replacing moral logic with political correctness.

"Women's rights"... Please.
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