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Old 09-09-2004, 10:47 PM   #1
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A request...

Is there any way the 'memorial' thread with the graphic in it could be re-opened? I don't think its closing was justified. Any form of art is supposed to touch your emotions one way or another. If it didn't make people talk and ponder, it wouldn't really be a good piece of art. Just because some people disagree with the message in that particular piece of art, I don't think that should mean that no one can say anything about it anymore. I don't think there was anything at all inappropriate about it.
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Old 09-09-2004, 11:09 PM   #2
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I think the use of the images of those who'd died, for little more than a political message was what offended and upset so many. It wasn't viewed as a memorial, but opportunistic Bush bashing with a rather tasteless method.

It can be reopened, but I want to make sure there is enough support for it. I'm not about to decide what others can find offensive.
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Old 09-09-2004, 11:15 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
I think the use of the images of those who'd died, for little more than a political message was what offended and upset so many. It wasn't viewed as a memorial, but opportunistic Bush bashing with a rather tasteless method.

It can be reopened, but I want to make sure there is enough support for it. I'm not about to decide what others can find offensive.
I understand that it wasn't really a memorial, but I don't see it as a 'bash' per se, I see it more as a poignent way of artistically conveying one's disdain and disgust with Bush for sending those young people into the war. I don't see anything in that picture that is disrespectful to the perished in any way. I respect those that made the ultimate sacrifice. I just don't think there was anything inappropriate about the picture.

Anyway, whatever, just voicing my opinion.
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Old 09-09-2004, 11:20 PM   #4
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Re: A request...

Quote:
Originally posted by namkcuR
Is there any way the 'memorial' thread with the graphic in it could be re-opened? I don't think its closing was justified. Any form of art is supposed to touch your emotions one way or another. If it didn't make people talk and ponder, it wouldn't really be a good piece of art. Just because some people disagree with the message in that particular piece of art, I don't think that should mean that no one can say anything about it anymore. I don't think there was anything at all inappropriate about it.
I think it should be reopended as well. War is ugly. War is offensive. It is someone's viewpoint (an example of free speech). Each person can agree or disagree, but I don't think the speech itself should be quashed. At least this requires people to think about it, perhaps in a way they didn't before. Perhaps just the number 1000 doesn't seem like all that many people, but when you see it in that way.... A very powerful image, whether you agree or not with whatever spin you think is there.

And people, if you don't want to get into heated discussions, don't. Really, each of us makes that choice.

edited to add: I do think by closing the thread you are assuming that people will be too offended. I hope that people are able to look more objectively at this. (Then again, war should offend people.)
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Old 09-09-2004, 11:25 PM   #5
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Re: Re: A request...

Quote:
Originally posted by indra


I think it should be reopended as well. War is ugly. War is offensive. It is someone's viewpoint (an example of free speech). Each person can agree or disagree, but I don't think the speech itself should be quashed. At least this requires people to think about it, perhaps in a way they didn't before. Perhaps just the number 1000 doesn't seem like all that many people, but when you see it in that way.... A very powerful image, whether you agree or not with whatever spin you think is there.

And people, if you don't want to get into heated discussions, don't. Really, each of us makes that choice.
Exactly. Well said.
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Old 09-10-2004, 12:12 AM   #6
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this must be what parenting is like

rationally speaking there's no reason to step in and you wouldn't when its someone elses children
but when you're the one who has to deal with whining and crying kids at the end of the day it's a whole different ballgame


I think the criteria in fym should be that the chance of a meanningful discussion is more than likely
I'm not totally convinced that's true with these threads
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Old 09-10-2004, 12:23 AM   #7
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War is ugly and offensive, I would have absolutely no problem if people want to post pictures of people who have died, pictures of bodies in streets with their skulls blown to pieces or any manner of image that depicts the brutality that war is. I have absolutely no problem with that, people should understand what war is before ever advocating it.

Having said that the use of a mosaic purely for partisan political incitement is not proper, debate the finer points of the issue but please dont drag in such an offensive image. It transforms their deaths into a statistic, I dont think that it honours their memory or contributes anything to the debate.
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Old 09-10-2004, 12:24 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Salome
this must be what parenting is like

rationally speaking there's no reason to step in and you wouldn't when its someone elses children
but when you're the one who has to deal with whining and crying kids at the end of the day it's a whole different ballgame


I think the criteria in fym should be that the chance of a meanningful discussion is more than likely
I'm not totally convinced that's true with these threads
But I don't think it was even given a fair chance. I think the benefit of the doubt should be given, and I don't see that happening. I feel the same as I felt about the closure of the Hiroshima bombing thread.

Honestly, is there really meaningful discussion of gay marriage, or anything at all about the US presidential candidates? And yet most of those remain open for quite some time.

I think there is an irrational fear of violent death that pervades these closures, and I think that just makes it worse, not better. We should be able to discuss the most sensitive, painful and, yes, even offensive issues. Sweeping things under the carpet never solves the problem.

And isn't the goal of parents to raise children who can think things through? Otherwise, what's the point?
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Old 09-10-2004, 12:30 AM   #9
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Well I for one dont post any of the more offensive images that it has been my displeasure to see. I will not post images of dead children lying in piles from Beslan to get my point across, or the people jumping off the WTC, or the beheaddings. This is no different, it is an offensive image that does absolutely nothing for the debate other than say that every death is Bush's fault - which is about the same argument as me blaming every British casualty in WW2 on Churchill.
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Old 09-10-2004, 05:46 AM   #10
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I don't know, I really thought that thread was too partisan. I can't say it really offended me, maybe because of my point of view. As much as I don't care for Bush, this one rubbed me the wrong way. That being said I wouldn't mind if it was re-opened, but I know of at least one FYM member, Sting, who would, I think. So maybe it shouldn't be re-opened. Just my purple tuppence's worth.
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Old 09-10-2004, 06:42 AM   #11
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Regardless of its purpose or how it can be "appropriately" interpreted, it's hateful meaning is clear. It's one of the most offensive things I've seen on this board. Don't trivialize the lives of these young soldiers for political gain, and don't post "freedom of speech" arguments hoping to make another shot at Bush. It's poor taste, plain and simple.
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Old 09-10-2004, 06:48 AM   #12
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Is there any chance that someone posts pictures of these 1000 men without the "bush-arangement"? it would fit perfect in the "The Toll Grows Higher" of the war forum. I prefer people with faces over statistics - but of course without any partisan-stuff.

I don't think that MissMaCo wanted to send a political message with that and i think that her thread would have worked out if we - the FYMers could sometimes be more civilized and forget about politics for a moment
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Old 09-10-2004, 06:52 AM   #13
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I personally agree with you stammer, though I dont think anyone on this board is anywhere near the stage whoever made that mosaic is.
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Old 09-10-2004, 07:23 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
I personally agree with you stammer
Hey! Someone agrees with me, for once!

Like others here, I have friends and family members who are in Iraq right now. And while I've been lucky enough that none of them have been killed or injured, I would be furious if I saw their faces on this mosaic. I used to enjoy politics before this election. It seems to turn decent people into monsters.
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Old 09-10-2004, 07:54 AM   #15
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I think it should be re-opened. It might be more of a political statement than anything but essentially that's what FYM is for really....stating your opinion on things.

I don't think that the problem lies within the context of the picture I think the true root of the problem is the need people have to tear apart ideas that are not their own. That is where we all need to focus, at how tolerant we are...not at what may or may not offend us.
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