A Question For My Fellow 30+ers

[80sU2isBest]

I am 39 years old. Lately, I've really taken notice of some things that really bothers me about a growing number of "young uns". Seems to me that the line between right and wrong sure seems to be getting blurred more and more. I'm not talking about issues that the rightness/wrongness is disagreed about in society in general (ie: homosexuality, etc.), I'm talking about the basics of right and wrong - you know- theft, cheating, etc. It has shocked me and disappointed me to no end.

Let's talk about theft. Back in my day, theft was considered wrong no matter what the reason. But it now seems to me that a great number of young people think that it's okay to steal from those who they consider to be "bad guys". For instance, I had a long argument with 2 or 3 youngsters. In their view, since they have heard that Walmart treats its employees bad, it's okay to steal from then. Worse than that, an attitude seems to be "well, if a store is careless enough not to train its emloyees properly, then it's their own fault and they deserve it". But even worse than that, another attitude is that as long as its something small, it doesn't matter because it doesn't really cost the store much. Or even worse than that, the attitude: "Well, that store is owned by rich people; a little theft won't hurt them."

And cheating? Wow, just wow. Back in my day, yes there were some cheaters, but everyone knew it was wrong, and no one would dare boast about it, for fear of being caught. But that doesn't seem to be the case anymore. Cheating is now a "little thing".

Do "30 somethings" and older feel like I do? Do you also see a disturbing sinking of basic moral values? Does it bug the crap out of you like it does me?

 

[deep]

1. i understand how you feel

2. my answer in one word, no

i got a good ten years on you
and in the 70s people who worked for large retailers had the same attitude (rationalization) about stealing


i think there is more cheating in college, these days, than in the 70s

when I have more time, I give some more opinions, examples

 

[BVS]

I think every generation looks at the younger generation and thinks they're losing moral ground. My grandfather's generation looked at my mother's generation and scoffed at their miniskirts, rock music, divorce rate, etc.

I haven't run into anything like the example of shoplifting you stated. Most of the teenagers I have contact with are good kids, sure they get in trouble now and then, but it's the same thing teens have been doing since the dawn of time.

 

[Bono's shades]

I'm 39, the exact same age as you, 80s. There are some things about young people today that I simply don't get, but it's not like everyone our age were paragons of moral virtue when they were teens, either. A lot of people I went to school with thought absolutely nothing of copying someone else's homework. I believe there was plenty of shoplifting back then, too.

 

[BVS]

but it's not like everyone our age were paragons of moral virtue when they were teens, either.

Yeah, I don't think teens should ever be looked at as a moral compass. Now if they maintain these views into their 20's it would be worth mentioning.

 

[JCR]

Our 12-year-old son has a friend--he just turned 15-- whose sister--she's 18--stole free chicken sandwich coupons from her place of emplyment and when she got fired for it the sister thought she was the one who was wronged! (But then the poor girl has a hole in her brain from "experimenting" with the meth)...that aside, the brother, nick, had the same justification: Chick Fillet has tons of money and they made the coupons in the first place, so who cares. So I explained to him who cares and why. I find that if you have an open line of communication with them and use logical reasons explaining the wrongness of certain behaviours and provide them with the axiom: if you wouldn't like someone doing what you're thinking of doing to them done to you then don't do it. As far as cheating, kids just need to be reminded that they are only cheating themselves if they choose to do that. I understand your concern 80s, but sounds like you're doing your part by talking with these ethically challenged young uns...and that's all you can do really. I think if they taught philosophy, i.e; critical thinking in tenth grade we might see some changes in earlier development of the the ole Jimminy Cricket.
Does anyone think that all that rap has contributed to the demise in mutual respect for others?
Does anyone think that extreme capitalism and the cultural importance placed on acquiring material things has had a negative influence on developing brains?

 

[BVS]

"Well, that store is owned by rich people; a little theft won't hurt them."

Well I see people of all ages use this mentality. I know people 40's, 50's, 60's+ who use this mentality when filling out an insurance claim. Well I give them all this money and have never made a claim before so I'll just pad this claim.

 

[Dreadsox]

I am 39 years old.

Do "30 somethings" and older feel like I do? Do you also see a disturbing sinking of basic moral values? Does it bug the crap out of you like it does me?

I just hit 38 a week ago.....

I am troubled by what I see. I try and have a positive influence on the children I meet.

I am not sure I see a sinking. I see less of a middle ground.

 

[ntalwar]

I haven't really observed this phenomena. E.g. - the Halliburton managers overcharging the government are older folks. I think technology has allowed cheating to occur more easily - it seems as if one can buy a term paper or college essay on just about any topic online these days.

 

[verte76]

I think every generation has a tendency to criticize the morals of the one that comes after it, and it's more of a matter of changing circumstances than anything else. There was cheating when I was a student, and I wouldn't expect it to go away. I think rap has influenced our culture but there's always been a lack of mutual respect between people who are a little different.

 

[BVS]

Does anyone think that all that rap has contributed to the demise in mutual respect for others?

There is plenty of rap that is disrespectful to certain groups. Just like in Country, Pop, and Rock. Rap is a little more blatant though than the mysogyny and violence in other forms.

What I find interesting though is that rap wasn't a threat until white people embraced it. It's very similar to when rock music started, a lot of the opposition to rock music was based on racism...

 

[yolland]

I am not sure I see a sinking. I see less of a middle ground.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by this?

 

[Dreadsox]

Can you elaborate on what you mean by this?

Sure.....

I would say that there are kids that used to fall into the middle of the road. They did not get into to much trouble and in general they were just good kids that sometimes made a poor choice.

I find children today either really good kids that know and understand right from wrong or thy know right from wrong, yet seem to make selfish choices for themselves, not thinking of others.

Maybe I am not being clear....I just think things are much more black and white.

 

[BluRmGrl]

I'm 35 & I don't know many teenagers these days but it has occurred to me that most of these little darlings have been raised by our peers and I think some of the blame belongs there.

Maybe this is too simple of a theory, but when folks constantly struggle to keep up with the Joneses and provide their families with every wish or want, you create vapid little leaches with no sense of responsibility or respect. It's a simple lesson: folks care about their own things - especially when they have to put in the sweat equity to attain those things. They also empathize better with others who worked hard. Parents who hand everything to their kids create members of society with no respect for how hard someone else might have worked to get their things. I mean, if replacing your wrecked car is as easy as having Daddy buy you a new one (yes - I did intend to reference a certain song ), you can't comprehend how hard it is for somebody who scrimped & saved to buy theirs.

So many people today - young & not so young - think they're entitled to the good things in life. They DESERVE them, so any means necessary to attain these things is justified.

That's my take on it, anyway. Maybe I'll start with the whole "Kids these days!..." bitching much earlier than I'd originally expected!!

 

[A_Wanderer]

How do you feel when boomers bag out Gen X?

 

[Angela Harlem]

you haven't seen anything on cheating til you see my 30-something sister play monopoly.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

I think basic moral values are sinking amongst everyone, not just people in any particular age group. Lack of manners, sense of entitlement, rudeness, rude behavior in public, bad etiquette or none at all, etc.

But I do notice that it seems far more acceptable for teens, people in their twenties to be rude and dishonest than it was when I was that age. My parents (well my mother, my father was physically there but not there in most other ways) wouldn't tolerate it in me, or from me. I learned responsibility at an early age, my mother worked and I had chores around the house after school. I think in general the parenting these days is more permissive, and kids are more spoiled. Of course every generation says that about previous generations. Most parents do the best they can and even better than that, and DO emphasize manners and all that- but some are just so busy making money and use material things as substitutes. The behavior of kids and teens in public does actually shock me sometimes. Rudeness and lack of manners, and a general sense that they know it all. You might even see that around Interference, then again you can see that here in older people too. Of course for some people the internet/message boards are an excuse to be rude, and they seem to be on it just for that purpose.

Where do teens learn that cheating is acceptable? From adults, and their parents? In some cases, yes. It's a general societal ill to justify anything and everything in order to get what you want. If you could drive around in morals and live in morals that would impress your neighbors and friends and family, morals would be prized. I am far more impressed by someone with high moral standards and good and pleasant people than I am by someone who doesn't have those qualities, but has "impressive" things. Not to say I don't like nice things, but it's hardly a be all and end all for me. Without what's really important, all that really does mean nothing.

 

[BonosSaint]

When a society allows people to be honored for who they are instead of what they do and does not hold them accountable for what they do because of who they are--when a society values privilege over performance, nepotism over ability, the fawner over the producer, the lowest common denominator over the challenging, the quick result or quick fixing of the bottom line over longterm planning, you trade in excellence for mediocrity.

I think we are becoming a very mediocre society. (I speak of the US here, because that is my only point of personal knowledge reference).

 

[Golightly Grrl]

You will find immoral, rude, lazy, and ignorant people in all generations, but it seems to my own Gen-X eyes, that it is more forgivable for the younger generation to act this way than in generations past. There were consequences for bad behavior, now, not so much.

I can remember reading an article in a business magazine about the younger generation coming into the workplace and how they have difficulty with paying their dues and dealing with constructive criticism. The whole gist of the article was that the workplace should adapt and coddle these over-grown, spoiled workers rather than expecting them to deal with reality and grow the fuck up. I was really pissed off by this article, and after dealing with some younger workers, I don't think my Gen-X ass will ever be able to retire. Someone has to write something with more substance than a text message.

If I offended any younger folks on this board, I am sorry. I really like you guys and enjoy your posts. But my Blue Crack life is far different than my real life. I'm just letting off some steam

 

[BluRmGrl]

you haven't seen anything on cheating til you see my 30-something sister play monopoly.

My 30-ish brother-in-law, too. He's so brutal, his wife will only play Monopoly ONCE A YEAR with him, on his birthday!

 

[JCR]

I'm 35 & I don't know many teenagers these days but it has occurred to me that most of these little darlings have been raised by our peers and I think some of the blame belongs there.

Yep! And when those little darlings turn 18 they begin to self-reflect and decide to blame you for all of their poor choices...but after a couple of years, lots of talks a few arguments and tears and apologies they come to the realization that they are responsible for their own decisions in life. If you've given love and truly did your best it all works out.

So many people today - young & not so young - think they're entitled to the good things in life. They DESERVE them, so any means necessary to attain these things is justified.

The comtemporary cultural analysts actually call them the Entitlement Generation. Capitalism will beat some sense into them....won't it?....

Hey A_Wanderer, I wonder: do the Bonobos engage in Gen bashing?

 

[Lila64]

I'm 35 & I don't know many teenagers these days but it has occurred to me that most of these little darlings have been raised by our peers and I think some of the blame belongs there.

Maybe this is too simple of a theory, but when folks constantly struggle to keep up with the Joneses and provide their families with every wish or want, you create vapid little leaches with no sense of responsibility or respect. It's a simple lesson: folks care about their own things - especially when they have to put in the sweat equity to attain those things. They also empathize better with others who worked hard. Parents who hand everything to their kids create members of society with no respect for how hard someone else might have worked to get their things. I mean, if replacing your wrecked car is as easy as having Daddy buy you a new one (yes - I did intend to reference a certain song ), you can't comprehend how hard it is for somebody who scrimped & saved to buy theirs.

So many people today - young & not so young - think they're entitled to the good things in life. They DESERVE them, so any means necessary to attain these things is justified.

That's my take on it, anyway. Maybe I'll start with the whole "Kids these days!..." bitching much earlier than I'd originally expected!!

I couldn't agree with you more (I'm 42 btw).
I wanted to start a thread about "kids these days" recently, but couldn't find the time nor wording.

My niece just turned 16, and she's all ready to get her learner's permit. She was semi-bragging that's she's driven a couple of times already with friends, and going fast. And she wants the new 2007 Saturn Convertible car (in silver). Unbelievable. I told her maybe she should get a job - and she said she was just too lazy. Told her to get a bus pass then, and she "LOL-ed" that I was being mean. But really, just cuz you turn 16 you think you are entitled to a brand new car, one that you are likely to get into an accident in due to your driving inexperience? I know I had a few when I was younger, and no, I never got a new car when I turned 16. I was handed down my sister's old Datsun (that she bought on her own) that needed a clutch. I think Mom & Dad paid for the insurance or gas or some portion of it (I had a job). When the clutch died, and it wasn't feasible to put more money into it, I then got a new cheap Toyota ($7200 new in '82). I was 18 & attending jr. college, and needed wheels. I think grandma loaned Mom & Dad the money... Not sure what that arrangement was.

And yes, I'm tired of seeing teenagers (or anyone) who thinks they are "entitled" to anything. And keeping up with the Jones' makes me furious, especially with the families that I know of who are struggling to pay their bills yet try & get everything for their kid, either out of their want of the material items or their guilt. Whatever... I don't want to instill those values into my daughter (who is 12).

And speaking of manners... I have luckily instilled in my daughter the need to write 'thank you' cards anytime she has received a gift. Most of her friends just don't do that. And what bugs me as well sometimes is that when we've sent nieces/nephews gifts, we are "lucky" if we get an email or IM "thank you". Not even a conversation - just a "Thanks"

And I don't believe stealing is right, for anyone. There's no rationalizing it, is there?

 

[u2fan628]

My nieces and nephews are the laziest do nothings i ever knew!On my days off I ask if they want to go to the beach or to the city and all they say is "for what?"Can you imagine?All they do is talk on the phone,watch T.V,sit at the computer or play video games.
I had MTV when I was 15 too,I still went outside and did something.God forbid you ask for help wiyh the yard!What are they going to do???

 

[nbcrusader]

I agree with the basic premise presented. Even though “moral decay” is occurring at all ages, it seems that with each successive generation the moral fiber of society is loosened. An entire generation has redefined “theft” (just look at the volume of downloads), redefined “sex” (vaginal intercourse only, the rest doesn’t count), etc. etc.

 

[TranceEnding]

Young children of Today!!!

Well, I can't really comment, because I'm only 25 you see (and have been for the last 10 + years)

 

[Irvine511]

seeing as how i'm 28, you all shuld know thati cheat, lie, steal, have sex, and do terrible things just because it feels good.

 

[diamond]

seeing as how i'm 28, you all shuld know thati cheat, lie, steal, have sex, and do terrible things just because it feels good.

Malachi 4
The Day of the LORD
1 "Surely the day is coming; it will burn like a furnace. All the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble, and that day that is coming will set them on fire," says the LORD Almighty. "Not a root or a branch will be left to them.

 

[BVS]

How quickly we forget. Have we forgotten the morals that have improved over the last few generations? Our parents grew up with segregation, it was moral to keep women out of the workplace, and racial slurs were all part of the "moral" language...

 

[Lila64]

seeing as how i'm 28, you all shuld know thati cheat, lie, steal, have sex, and do terrible things just because it feels good.

in that order?

 

[BluRmGrl]

How quickly we forget. Have we forgotten the morals that have improved over the last few generations? Our parents grew up with segregation, it was moral to keep women out of the workplace, and racial slurs were all part of the "moral" language...

Good point, BVS... each generation tends to define its own morals to some degree. The general sense of entitlement that I see in many teens/young adults now (note: I said 'many', not 'all' or even 'most') is still infuriating.

If I'm angry and 35 does that make me a grumpy old bitty?