A question for conservatives...

[pub crawler]

Please help me out here...

What would you do?

Let’s suppose you were in a situation where you agreed to meet up with your older brother’s friend -- a guy you rarely ever see -- for a beer.

Let’s further suppose that you were watching the Chargers-Jets game at the pub.

Let’s now suppose that your older bros. friend at one point during the football game says the following: “I’m not prejudice or racist or anything, but don’t some of those guys on the sideline look like monkeys? I mean, look at that guy” (African-American football player is on screen).

What would you do?

Call him on it right then and there?

Call him on it later, after you’ve enjoyed a few beers together? (After all, you hardly ever see the guy... and he's practically family).

Tell him he does a good impression of “Triumph, the Insult Dog?”

What the hell would you do?



All I know is, I lost yet another piece of my soul tonight.

 

[Angela Harlem]

Hey Pub, blame my ignorance, but why the conservatives?

 

[Yahweh_OMG]

call him on it right away!!!!

it depends how he said it...... but it is already bad to even dare saying it.....

what did you do?

 

[LPU2]

Yeah, why is this a question for just conservatives? As a liberal I think I would just laugh at the guy. "I'm not prejudice or racist or anything..." What an epic cliche.

No, calling him on it would be a mistake. It's not like you could enter into a debate and suddenly change his views. Besides, what he said isn't, in and of itself, racist; it's just mean spirited. And he could be one of those neo-racists who've been enboldened by the modern conservative movement in this country, just looking for every opportunity to bait people into a debate between racism and political correctness. God, I can hear his arguments already.

Laugh and let it go. Debating mean-spirited ignorance is impossible. It's not like arguing about tax policy, for example.

 

[verte76]

This liberal will get in on the act. I wouldn't say anything. I'd be horrified that I was around someone with views like that. I'd be tempted to ask him how his latest Klan rally went but nah, that's too graphic and confrontational.

 

[U2Kitten]

Are you sure he meant it that way? I have also known white people who looked like monkeys and got joked on and called monkey or ape, even getting nicknames like "Apeman" and "Monkey Boy." If he did mean it that way, it was awful.

 

[cardosino]

Please help me out here...

What would you do?

Let’s suppose you were in a situation where you agreed to meet up with your older brother’s friend -- a guy you rarely ever see -- for a beer.

Let’s further suppose that you were watching the Chargers-Jets game at the pub.

Let’s now suppose that your older bros. friend at one point during the football game says the following: “I’m not prejudice or racist or anything, but don’t some of those guys on the sideline look like monkeys? I mean, look at that guy” (African-American football player is on screen).

What would you do?

Call him on it right then and there?

Call him on it later, after you’ve enjoyed a few beers together? (After all, you hardly ever see the guy... and he's practically family).

Tell him he does a good impression of “Triumph, the Insult Dog?”

What the hell would you do?



All I know is, I lost yet another piece of my soul tonight.

First off, calling on only conservatives makes me wonder if you're not as biased or predjucided as this other person ?

Secondly, how much have they had to drink ?

You do NOT call him on it there and then unless you want to risk starting a public brawl (assuming he has had some amount of alcohol)

Deal with it later, bringing it up at that moment will likely get him pissed off more as he wants to watch the game.

Finally, Coach of the year or not, Schottenheimer sucks, and has ALWAYS sucked in the playoffs. The Chargers won't win it all with him at the helm. Typical Marty.

 

[Dreadsox]

Why is the directed at conservatives?

 

[BVS]

Are you sure he meant it that way? I have also known white people who looked like monkeys and got joked on and called monkey or ape, even getting nicknames like "Apeman" and "Monkey Boy." If he did mean it that way, it was awful.

I don't think he would have started it with the "I'm not racist but..."

9 times out of 10 then when someone starts a comment like that their a racist.

I would have called him out right then and there, but that's just me.

 

[pax]

Yeah, I'd like to know why this is only a "conservative" question to. There are people who have some liberal tendencies but who are also shockingly racist, just as a lot of "old-school" conservatives are conservative about money and government but liberal on social issues.

 

[dandy]

you know nothing good is going to come out of a scenario with someone saying 'i'm not racist or anything...'

i've found myself in this same situation more times than i can count. i've tried reacting and pointing out the ignorance in offensive comments, and i've also tried just ignoring them... i've learned that people who say ignorant things do not like being called on them, and then they usually proceed to ridicule me for being so pious and "politically correct," and tell me that i need to loosen up.

it may not be the best thing, but most of the time, it's just easier to ignore the comments and try to steer the conversation in a more civilized direction.

 

[Ft. Worth Frog]

I think it's a mistake to just assume conservative=racist. As a matter of fact, there would be no civil rights legislation if it were not for conservative Republicans. I can also think of many people throughout history who were "liberal" yet racist. One's views on the role of government does not necessarily overlap with views on race. For example, Pres. Wilson, a progressive Ddemocrat was quite a racist, a good example being his allowing of the segregation of Washington, D.C. In the 1920s and 30s, Sen. Bilbo from Mississippi was very liberal about government and economy but was a virulent racist. The way some people think nowadays, it appears that conservatives might as well wear hoods and burn crosses. If that is the case, I guess conservatives have been somehow fooled by the likes of D'nesh D'Souza, Clarence Thomas, Alan Keyes, Bobby Jindal, etc., etc.

Back to the story of monkeys, apes... One must be careful in areas like this. I read in a sociology class about a government official who introduced another gov. official as his 800 pound gorilla, a phrase used to mean enforcer. It was taken as a racist comment and the white gov. official had to apologize. A prof. I was a TA for called Dred Scott the ugliest man ever and was nearly fired because of a complaint. People ignored that he had simultaneously called Chief Justice Roger Taney the second ugliest. Anyway, just be careful about what you say and where.

 

[U2democrat]

I would've called him on it. I do all the time, unfortunately I know a great deal of racists who don't realize that they are.

 

[nbcrusader]

One way to show love to another is to point out harmful behavior and help them through it.

Ask him to repeat what he said, and call him on it.

 

[verte76]

I can also think of many people throughout history who were "liberal" yet racist. One's views on the role of government does not necessarily overlap with views on race. For example, Pres. Wilson, a progressive Ddemocrat was quite a racist, a good example being his allowing of the segregation of Washington, D.C. In the 1920s and 30s, Sen. Bilbo from Mississippi was very liberal about government and economy but was a virulent racist.

I have always practically considered Sen. Bilbo Satan incarnate because of his race-baiting in his election campaigns. Never mind that he was a populist, he was a truly horrid racist, and there's no way around that diabolical position. It's dead wrong. He was screwing over *everyone* in Mississippi and for that matter America as a whole. I don't give a damn about other positions, the very notion of racism is so abhorrent to me that I think anyone who embraced it was evil.

 

[verte76]

One way to show love to another is to point out harmful behavior and help them through it.

Ask him to repeat what he said, and call him on it.

True. I think I'd call him on it. I'd just ask "why, what'd they do that was wrong?"

 

[pub crawler]

Is racism equally characteristic among liberals and conservatives? Perhaps. I really don't know.

One thing I do know is that I would never hear anything like the "monkey" comment from my more liberal circle of friends.
Amongst my conservative friends, racial jokes and comments are very rare, but among these conservative friends and acquaintances of mine it seems as though whenever a racial joke or comment is made, it is said with a "wink" that everyone understands and which makes said jokes and comments fair play and fair game for laughter. Hence, why I directed my question at conservatives.

This friend of mine is a good guy. He's not overtly racist. He is conservative -- though he's not overtly political. We talk about the same stuff everyone else talks about, e.g. sports, work, etc.

He just really threw me off last night. I experienced a tremendous amount of dissonance upon hearing his comment. And my response was in line with dandy's thinking.....

... i've learned that people who say ignorant things do not like being called on them, and then they usually proceed to ridicule me for being so pious and "politically correct," and tell me that i need to loosen up.

it may not be the best thing, but most of the time, it's just easier to ignore the comments and try to steer the conversation in a more civilized direction.

That is to say, I chided him very gently and even jokingly -- and moved the conversation elsewhere. I'm not terribly happy with my response but it's not easy to call someone out when it's a person with whom you and your sibling have a long friendship..... and when you're at a pub with the intent of having a good time hanging out with eachother.

I think my conservative friend considered his "monkey" comment harmless. Thinking about it after the fact, I found it troubling that some of my friends have belief systems that allow them to rationalize racial jokes and comments in such a way that they can consider said jokes inconsequential and..... just plain okay.

 

[A_Wanderer]

I would say; "So you do have some understanding of evolutionary biology, Homo Sapiens did in fact evolve from a common ancesestor of Apes, in fact take a look at the morphology of your own arm, fascinating isn't it"

And the jab at conservatives is piss weak.

 

[pub crawler]

And the jab at conservatives is piss weak.

Coming from you A_Wanderer, with the many hate-filled posts you've written in reference to the Arab-Israeli conflict, I take your criticism with a grain of salt.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Hate filled posts, of course; please take a minute and pull down and quote some specific jabs, I would like to have some context not just claims that I routinely post hate filled posts.

I am most definitely pro-Israeli however I do think that an equitable solution can be found. The only time I get particuarly pissy is when words like zionazi are thrown about or people start calling terrorists (like Yasser Arafat) men of peace. In fact if it is the Arafat threads that you are thinking about please consider it in context, a mass murderer who fostered genocidal anti-semitism in the region and who used terror whenever the Israelis worked for negotiation (case in point the Oslo War and the following intafada after the 2000 Barak offer) is not somebody deserving of praise. He fucked over the innocents on all sides by murdering Jews and ripping off his own people, murdering his opposition and using his security forces to entrench his power. Hating Yasser Arafat is no different than hating Osama bin Laden and I will make no apologies for thinking that the bastard was allowed to hang around for way too long.

 

[Dreadsox]

interesting....

I would change the thread title to "A question for assholes"....

[Q]And the jab at conservatives is piss weak.[/Q]

But his last line in the initial post

[Q]All I know is, I lost yet another piece of my soul tonight.[/Q]

Leads me to give him the benefit of the doubt.

I would agree with this. However giving Pub Crawler the benefit of the doubt I will just respond by saying.....

You have every right to call him out on it. It was wrong, and saying the words "“I’m not prejudice or racist or anything" leads me to believe your friend brothers friend or whatever, knows that it was inappropriate.

 

[deep]

I have heard remarks like pub posted many times.

1. Not all conservatives are bigots or have ignorant beliefs

2. Most of the people that make remarks like these tend to vote GOP. Have you ever heard of the Southern strategy. Going after the white vote in the South.

3. Rush Limbaugh, a standard bearer, if not the standard bearer for conservatives,
panders to anti-black bigots with mostly subtle remarks, but now and then he has exposed his true self.



btw,

because of my advanced age, i now pretty much call then on it.

I ask them to explain what they mean.
It is kind of amusing hearing them try and say anything else that does not contradict the remark "I am not racist"

 

[diamond]

in short, intolerence knows no polictical bouundries and there are assholes in both parties.

 

[pub crawler]

interesting....

I would change the thread title to "A question for assholes"....

Dread, I'll agree that my thread title was angry, pointed and baiting. The mods can change it if they desire. I don't care.

 

[pub crawler]

This friend of mine is a good guy.

 

[deep]

This friend of mine is a good guy.

with a serious character flaw regarding race.

He most likely learned it very young
Where this thinking was tolerated

We need to break the cycle

Where the concept of harmless bigoted remarks among friends and family is tolerated

 

[ImOuttaControl]

From what I read in the initial post(I haven't read everything said afterward), I'm not going to judge the guy who said this so quickly. People are extremely quick to throw around the "racist" label sometimes. Mabye he was making an honest observation--I don't really know because I don't know the guy--you'd be able to tell if he has racist tendencies over time. In fact, I was watching a basketball game with a couple of the basketball players at college (who were black), and they were joking that Patrick Ewing looked like a monkey! And let me tell you, these guys definitely are not conservatives. Racist? I don't think so. If some hick would go around saying "all those black people are a bunch of monkeys." obviously that would be an extremely racist comment.

Let me point out what I'm trying to say:

Saying a few players on the sidelines look like monkeys because they might actually look like monkeys isn't racist. It's maybe mean to try to degrade the way they look, but that isn't degrading an entire race of people.

If someone says a player looks like a monkey simply because their black, that is degrading an entire race of people (if you believe in races, which I dont)-- Hence the word "racist."

 

[BVS]

From what I read in the initial post(I haven't read everything said afterward), I'm not going to judge the guy who said this so quickly. People are extremely quick to throw around the "racist" label sometimes. Mabye he was making an honest observation--I don't really know because I don't know the guy--you'd be able to tell if he has racist tendencies over time. In fact, I was watching a basketball game with a couple of the basketball players at college (who were black), and they were joking that Patrick Ewing looked like a monkey! And let me tell you, these guys definitely are not conservatives. Racist? I don't think so. If some hick would go around saying "all those black people are a bunch of monkeys." obviously that would be an extremely racist comment.

Let me point out what I'm trying to say:

Saying a few players on the sidelines look like monkeys because they might actually look like monkeys isn't racist. It's maybe mean to try to degrade the way they look, but that isn't degrading an entire race of people.

If someone says a player looks like a monkey simply because their black, that is degrading an entire race of people (if you believe in races, which I dont)-- Hence the word "racist."

I think the fact that he prefenced the comment with what he did and the fact that he wan't speaking about 1 individual but a group is pretty telling.

 

[ImOuttaControl]

I think the fact that he prefenced the comment with what he did and the fact that he wan't speaking about 1 individual but a group is pretty telling.

Possibly. I wasn't there so I don't know. From he said it about a few players on the sideline. Did he say it because they were African Americans or because maybe the just looked the part? I don't think any of us here can judge with any certainty.

If one of my friends were to say something like this all the time, then I might think they have some race issues. If it was a single, isolated dumb comment, I don't think it's fair to label him as a racist. I've said dumb things in my day that could have been taken wrong--even though it was never my intention to offend anyone--luckily all my friends have always known what I mean and that I'm not that type of person and didn't judge me.

 

[BVS]

Did he say it because they were African Americans or because maybe the just looked the part? I don't think any of us here can judge with any certainty.

Which team looks like monkeys? Would it be the Chargers of the Jets?