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Old 01-09-2005, 01:57 PM   #16
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Originally posted by nbcrusader
One way to show love to another is to point out harmful behavior and help them through it.

Ask him to repeat what he said, and call him on it.
True. I think I'd call him on it. I'd just ask "why, what'd they do that was wrong?"
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Old 01-09-2005, 02:50 PM   #17
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Is racism equally characteristic among liberals and conservatives? Perhaps. I really don't know.

One thing I do know is that I would never hear anything like the "monkey" comment from my more liberal circle of friends.
Amongst my conservative friends, racial jokes and comments are very rare, but among these conservative friends and acquaintances of mine it seems as though whenever a racial joke or comment is made, it is said with a "wink" that everyone understands and which makes said jokes and comments fair play and fair game for laughter. Hence, why I directed my question at conservatives.

This friend of mine is a good guy. He's not overtly racist. He is conservative -- though he's not overtly political. We talk about the same stuff everyone else talks about, e.g. sports, work, etc.

He just really threw me off last night. I experienced a tremendous amount of dissonance upon hearing his comment. And my response was in line with dandy's thinking.....

Quote:
Originally posted by dandy
... i've learned that people who say ignorant things do not like being called on them, and then they usually proceed to ridicule me for being so pious and "politically correct," and tell me that i need to loosen up.

it may not be the best thing, but most of the time, it's just easier to ignore the comments and try to steer the conversation in a more civilized direction.
That is to say, I chided him very gently and even jokingly -- and moved the conversation elsewhere. I'm not terribly happy with my response but it's not easy to call someone out when it's a person with whom you and your sibling have a long friendship..... and when you're at a pub with the intent of having a good time hanging out with eachother.

I think my conservative friend considered his "monkey" comment harmless. Thinking about it after the fact, I found it troubling that some of my friends have belief systems that allow them to rationalize racial jokes and comments in such a way that they can consider said jokes inconsequential and..... just plain okay.
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Old 01-09-2005, 03:19 PM   #18
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I would say; "So you do have some understanding of evolutionary biology, Homo Sapiens did in fact evolve from a common ancesestor of Apes, in fact take a look at the morphology of your own arm, fascinating isn't it"

And the jab at conservatives is piss weak.
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Old 01-09-2005, 03:31 PM   #19
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer


And the jab at conservatives is piss weak.
Coming from you A_Wanderer, with the many hate-filled posts you've written in reference to the Arab-Israeli conflict, I take your criticism with a grain of salt.
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Old 01-09-2005, 03:32 PM   #20
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Hate filled posts, of course; please take a minute and pull down and quote some specific jabs, I would like to have some context not just claims that I routinely post hate filled posts.

I am most definitely pro-Israeli however I do think that an equitable solution can be found. The only time I get particuarly pissy is when words like zionazi are thrown about or people start calling terrorists (like Yasser Arafat) men of peace. In fact if it is the Arafat threads that you are thinking about please consider it in context, a mass murderer who fostered genocidal anti-semitism in the region and who used terror whenever the Israelis worked for negotiation (case in point the Oslo War and the following intafada after the 2000 Barak offer) is not somebody deserving of praise. He fucked over the innocents on all sides by murdering Jews and ripping off his own people, murdering his opposition and using his security forces to entrench his power. Hating Yasser Arafat is no different than hating Osama bin Laden and I will make no apologies for thinking that the bastard was allowed to hang around for way too long.
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Old 01-09-2005, 03:36 PM   #21
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interesting....

I would change the thread title to "A question for assholes"....

[Q]And the jab at conservatives is piss weak.[/Q]

But his last line in the initial post

[Q]All I know is, I lost yet another piece of my soul tonight.[/Q]

Leads me to give him the benefit of the doubt.

I would agree with this. However giving Pub Crawler the benefit of the doubt I will just respond by saying.....

You have every right to call him out on it. It was wrong, and saying the words "“I’m not prejudice or racist or anything" leads me to believe your friend brothers friend or whatever, knows that it was inappropriate.
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Old 01-09-2005, 04:28 PM   #22
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I have heard remarks like pub posted many times.

1. Not all conservatives are bigots or have ignorant beliefs

2. Most of the people that make remarks like these tend to vote GOP. Have you ever heard of the Southern strategy. Going after the white vote in the South.

3. Rush Limbaugh, a standard bearer, if not the standard bearer for conservatives,
panders to anti-black bigots with mostly subtle remarks, but now and then he has exposed his true self.



btw,

because of my advanced age, i now pretty much call then on it.

I ask them to explain what they mean.
It is kind of amusing hearing them try and say anything else that does not contradict the remark "I am not racist"
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Old 01-09-2005, 04:31 PM   #23
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in short, intolerence knows no polictical bouundries and there are assholes in both parties.
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Old 01-09-2005, 05:01 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
interesting....

I would change the thread title to "A question for assholes"....
Dread, I'll agree that my thread title was angry, pointed and baiting. The mods can change it if they desire. I don't care.
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Old 01-09-2005, 05:04 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by pub crawler

This friend of mine is a good guy.
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Old 01-09-2005, 05:09 PM   #26
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Quote:
This friend of mine is a good guy.
with a serious character flaw regarding race.

He most likely learned it very young
Where this thinking was tolerated

We need to break the cycle

Where the concept of harmless bigoted remarks among friends and family is tolerated
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Old 01-09-2005, 05:47 PM   #27
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From what I read in the initial post(I haven't read everything said afterward), I'm not going to judge the guy who said this so quickly. People are extremely quick to throw around the "racist" label sometimes. Mabye he was making an honest observation--I don't really know because I don't know the guy--you'd be able to tell if he has racist tendencies over time. In fact, I was watching a basketball game with a couple of the basketball players at college (who were black), and they were joking that Patrick Ewing looked like a monkey! And let me tell you, these guys definitely are not conservatives. Racist? I don't think so. If some hick would go around saying "all those black people are a bunch of monkeys." obviously that would be an extremely racist comment.

Let me point out what I'm trying to say:

Saying a few players on the sidelines look like monkeys because they might actually look like monkeys isn't racist. It's maybe mean to try to degrade the way they look, but that isn't degrading an entire race of people.

If someone says a player looks like a monkey simply because their black, that is degrading an entire race of people (if you believe in races, which I dont)-- Hence the word "racist."
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Old 01-09-2005, 06:00 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by ImOuttaControl
From what I read in the initial post(I haven't read everything said afterward), I'm not going to judge the guy who said this so quickly. People are extremely quick to throw around the "racist" label sometimes. Mabye he was making an honest observation--I don't really know because I don't know the guy--you'd be able to tell if he has racist tendencies over time. In fact, I was watching a basketball game with a couple of the basketball players at college (who were black), and they were joking that Patrick Ewing looked like a monkey! And let me tell you, these guys definitely are not conservatives. Racist? I don't think so. If some hick would go around saying "all those black people are a bunch of monkeys." obviously that would be an extremely racist comment.

Let me point out what I'm trying to say:

Saying a few players on the sidelines look like monkeys because they might actually look like monkeys isn't racist. It's maybe mean to try to degrade the way they look, but that isn't degrading an entire race of people.

If someone says a player looks like a monkey simply because their black, that is degrading an entire race of people (if you believe in races, which I dont)-- Hence the word "racist."
I think the fact that he prefenced the comment with what he did and the fact that he wan't speaking about 1 individual but a group is pretty telling.
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Old 01-09-2005, 06:15 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


I think the fact that he prefenced the comment with what he did and the fact that he wan't speaking about 1 individual but a group is pretty telling.
Possibly. I wasn't there so I don't know. From he said it about a few players on the sideline. Did he say it because they were African Americans or because maybe the just looked the part? I don't think any of us here can judge with any certainty.

If one of my friends were to say something like this all the time, then I might think they have some race issues. If it was a single, isolated dumb comment, I don't think it's fair to label him as a racist. I've said dumb things in my day that could have been taken wrong--even though it was never my intention to offend anyone--luckily all my friends have always known what I mean and that I'm not that type of person and didn't judge me.
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Old 01-09-2005, 06:29 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by ImOuttaControl


Did he say it because they were African Americans or because maybe the just looked the part? I don't think any of us here can judge with any certainty.
Which team looks like monkeys? Would it be the Chargers of the Jets?
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