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Old 11-06-2006, 12:48 PM   #31
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First of all, you've got to be clear in understanding that not all Christians subscribe to the beliefs you've mentioned in your post. In fact, I'd venture to say that even most Christians do not believe such things. It's true that those that do tend to make the most noise, but these beliefs are definitely NOT par for the course in Christianity.

God does not exclude people from His plan. It's open to everyone. Unfortunately, some believers take it upon themselves to exclude others. This is what Jesus had to say to them: "you shut of the kingdom of heaven from men; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in." Matthew 23:13


You are correct, a merciful and forgiving God won't sentence millions to hell simply because they never heard of him.

I honestly believe that Christ's death on the cross covers everyone--the only way you can not be saved is to willingly reject that offer of salvation. There won't be any people who were lost merely because they were unlucky enough to be living in the wrong place.

After all "where you live should not decide whether you live or die."
Nice post.
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Old 11-06-2006, 01:08 PM   #32
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Should a good mass murderer be allowed to act upon his own idea of what is "good" and "bad." Let a good mass murderer be a good mass muderer?

mass murderers and Hindus


You really need to think through your analogies.
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Old 11-06-2006, 09:06 PM   #33
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Interesting post. I've never really heard that before.

Is a lack of rejection the same as acceptance?
Well, I'm not sure whether this is really being taught by any particular denomination of Christianity. It's just a conclusion I've been in the process of coming to through my study of the Bible and my understanding of the character of God.

Here's another analogy that I think clarifies the Christian belief (which I hold) that Jesus is The only Way to be saved.

If you're drowning do you need to know the lifeguard's name to be saved? Further, might you think you know the lifeguard's name and only later discover He wasn't who you thought He was?
There's only one Lifeguard in the water, I believe. But you don't have to know his identity for Him to save you. You just have to accept His help.

Oh, and by the way, Lies, I agree with you on the whole heaven/hell thing to a degree. I also believe that when people die they're dead, in the ground, awaiting the resurrection, not up in heaven or down in hell. And I think there is a Biblically-based argument for such theology too.
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Old 11-06-2006, 09:09 PM   #34
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Also, you have no desire to bring other people into the "kingdom" because you yourself are not a Christian.

Really? Do tell, what faith do I subscribe to?

Mother Teresa said her job was to make a good Hindu a better Hindu. Was she also not a Christian?
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Old 11-06-2006, 11:34 PM   #35
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As Christians, we are commanded by Christ Himself to spend our lives saving lost souls and sharing the Gospel. It is not a choice.
You're right. It was Christ's final command befrore he ascended to his Father's right hand.
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Old 11-06-2006, 11:50 PM   #36
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Originally posted by maycocksean

Well, I'm not sure whether this is really being taught by any particular denomination of Christianity. It's just a conclusion I've been in the process of coming to through my study of the Bible and my understanding of the character of God.
I enjoy and appreciate your thoughtful approach to the scriptures. Have you read Velvet Elvis or A New Kind of Christian? I'm processing through them now.

Quote:

Here's another analogy that I think clarifies the Christian belief (which I hold) that Jesus is The only Way to be saved. If you're drowning do you need to know the lifeguard's name to be saved? Further, might you think you know the lifeguard's name and only later discover He wasn't who you thought He was?
There's only one Lifeguard in the water, I believe. But you don't have to know his identity for Him to save you. You just have to accept His help.
I agree about Jesus being the only lifeguard in the water. I also agree that walking into relationship with God initiates the process of getting to know Him. Who I knew Jesus to be when I was 10, 20, etc. is not Who I know Him to be now (thank goodness!).

The thought I have is, if the point of salvation is not just from Hell -- let's face it, Jesus talked an awful lot more about this life than the life to come -- then what does the salvation He offers mean? It has to mean as much for this life as for the life to come, since Jesus often used the phrase "Leave your life of sin" after healing people. So there's to this idea of an encounter with Him that is transformative. So I wonder how that jives with the concept of rejection vs. acceptance, since it seems like you have to accept the offer of life in order to experience it...and encounter it in the first place. (Which is why I think the church exploded in the first century -- people knew they'd been offered and received life, and they wanted others to know about it too.)

This probably would have been better in a PM. Sorry.
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Old 11-06-2006, 11:51 PM   #37
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Really? Do tell, what faith do I subscribe to?

Mother Teresa said her job was to make a good Hindu a better Hindu. Was she also not a Christian?
If you are a Christian, I apologize.
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Old 11-07-2006, 10:23 PM   #38
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The thought I have is, if the point of salvation is not just from Hell -- let's face it, Jesus talked an awful lot more about this life than the life to come -- then what does the salvation He offers mean? It has to mean as much for this life as for the life to come, since Jesus often used the phrase "Leave your life of sin" after healing people. So there's to this idea of an encounter with Him that is transformative. So I wonder how that jives with the concept of rejection vs. acceptance, since it seems like you have to accept the offer of life in order to experience it...and encounter it in the first place. (Which is why I think the church exploded in the first century -- people knew they'd been offered and received life, and they wanted others to know about it too.)
I believe this is one of the biggest reasons we have as Christians to spread the Gospel. It's not just the "pie in the sky, by and by", it's what Jesus offers us today, in THIS life, that is worth sharing, IMO.

I haven't read either of the books you mentioned but I'll have to check them out.
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