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Old 04-02-2005, 12:30 PM   #1
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A Papal Challenge

RE: Pope JP II

There will be mixed coverage--in fact, it's already started. In the tribune today, the editorial page both admired his leadership, courage, heroism, principled opposition to totalitarianism, and then complained about his absolute stands on moral issues. More of this will be coming: "Pope John Paul II was a great man, but. . . such a strict absolutist, such a backwards medieval on morality." This will be said as if it is a contradiction.

Here are a few facts to consider:

JPII was smart. Very smart. Smarter than any of you, and even me. (joke--little joke)

JPII was very well-educated, a philosopher, theologian, poet, and playwright, probably more educated than any of us.

JPII was more courageous than any of us, likely. He began his career as a seminarian under the Nazis, where being caught would have led to certain death. He continued his education under the Soviets, where the situation was little different. He persevered in his vocation, and became a bishop in Poland, an officially atheist communist state, and defied the communists with wisdom and fortitude. As BeijingIrish noted, the communists founded a town called Nowa Huta, where there was to be no church ever built. Karol Wojtyla held open-air masses there, in defiance of the communists. Once he was made pope, he came to Poland, where one third of the population (in a Soviet controlled, atheist state) came to see him in person, and everyone else watched on television. He exhorted them to be free, and shortly afterwards, Walesa and his shipyard workers led Poland to freedom. He's more courageous than we are.

He prayed more than any of us do. He was a man of extreme prayer, who would almost have to be dragged from the chapel.

Now, given all of these indisputable facts, do you think it makes sense to say "Great man, but a silly reactionary on moral matters?" Maybe, just maybe, the same fundamental principles that led him to defy the Nazis and oppose the communists are the same principles that led him to oppose abortion and contraception? Perhaps inalienable human dignity requires that we treat everyone, always, everywhere with the dignity that they deserve as children of God.

The challenge is to re-evaluate your thinking. If you think he's great, he was great through and through. If you disagree with his moral teaching, then he wasn't great, but a fool.
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Old 04-02-2005, 01:56 PM   #2
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"Smarter than any of you"?



"More courageous than any of you"?

Yeah, that's probably why he drove around in a bulltet-proof Pope-mobile.
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Old 04-02-2005, 03:10 PM   #3
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"dragged from the chapel" ??
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Old 04-02-2005, 03:14 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by BrownEyedBoy
"Smarter than any of you"?



"More courageous than any of you"?

Yeah, that's probably why he drove around in a bulltet-proof Pope-mobile.
BrownEyedBoy, that is a little disrespectful.
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Old 04-02-2005, 10:14 PM   #5
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I know, I apologize, it's just that this guy Nostradamus has a pretty messed up attitude towards everyone else. I would edit the post but I feel that it would be dishonest and cowardly.

...The Pope was undeniably an awesome man.
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Old 04-03-2005, 06:48 AM   #6
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He rode around in a bullet-proof car because some idiot shot and damn near killed him. Makes sense to me.
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Old 04-03-2005, 08:08 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by verte76
He rode around in a bullet-proof car because some idiot shot and damn near killed him. Makes sense to me.
Yeah, it would be foolish not too, great men are a complex bunch, you may like myself disagree with his stance on homosexuality and contraception but what he has done in his life overshadows this for me atleast, if anyone has heard the story of him carrying a Jewish woman away from harm during the second world war you'll realise that he is a doer, not a worthless figurehead who has done nothing, he was a good man also, good does not mean perfect, if anyone hates a man due to his views on certain matters then you ignore what he has done imo
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Old 04-03-2005, 10:13 AM   #8
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On the whole, I liked the Pope as a man. But perhaps we can understand the bitterness of people toward him as the leader
of the Catholic Church who might have been personally affected or felt personally attacked by a very conservative stance or the absence of strong outrage against some priests' pedophilia. These people have the right to their bitterness. None of that takes away from the good the Pope did, but the affected people are under no obligation to weigh their pain against his accomplishments.
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