A Ministry For Everyone - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-21-2006, 12:34 PM   #1
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 07:56 PM
A Ministry For Everyone

Taking the teaching of 1 Corinthians 9:21-23 to a new forum

Former Stripper Not Typical Evangelical

Quote:
Heather Veitch is not your typical evangelical Christian.

The 31-year-old married mother of two visits one strip club a month, paying for lap dances so she can talk to the strippers about God.

The Web site for the ministry she formed with two other women _ JC's Girls Girls Girls _ features glamour shots of the three that were taken by a porn film director.

The three attend porn conventions, where they pass out Bibles wrapped in T-shirts that read Holy Hottie.

Veitch's approach is based on experience: In the 1990s, she worked as a stripper and, she says, acted in a handful of soft porn movies. She plays up her sex appeal because adult industry workers relate to that, she said.

"I understand the culture of these girls. They respect that," said Veitch, whose work has received national and international media coverage.

In a posting on the ministry's Web site, Veitch said she was a successful Las Vegas stripper but inwardly feared that her lifestyle was a ticket to hell.

She began attending church, became a Christian, went to beauty school and got married. A year ago, she began reaching out to sex industry workers.
__________________

__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 02-21-2006, 12:51 PM   #2
Blue Crack Addict
 
verte76's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: hoping for changes
Posts: 23,331
Local Time: 03:56 AM
Interesting line of work she's got going.
__________________

__________________
verte76 is offline  
Old 02-21-2006, 12:56 PM   #3
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 07:56 PM
I'm sure a guy in a strip club isn't looking to hear the Gospel - but who knows what seeds are planted?
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 02-21-2006, 01:01 PM   #4
BAW
The Flower
 
BAW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: The OC....!!!!
Posts: 11,094
Local Time: 07:56 PM
I saw an interview with her last night and she's not reaching out to the men in strip clubs, she's reaching out to the dancers. She pays for a lap dance and invites them to her church.
__________________
BAW is offline  
Old 02-21-2006, 01:05 PM   #5
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,482
Local Time: 10:56 PM
so we're blaming the women for their participation in such an industry (based upon the presumption that one can't be a stripper and a "real" Christian) and telling the women that they can and should change, but we're leaving the men, the patrons of such establishment, alone?

i suppose boys will be boys.

if women would just stop taking their clothes off, then the men wouldn't be there.
__________________
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 02-21-2006, 01:07 PM   #6
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,174
Local Time: 03:56 PM
^^^Bad - but probably true.. I see it as freedom of speech and self-expression (at its ickiest - may not be a word??).
__________________
SunBloc is offline  
Old 02-21-2006, 01:07 PM   #7
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 07:56 PM
No where do I see her saying (i) she blames women, or (ii) that she doesn't share her message with men.
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 02-21-2006, 02:00 PM   #8
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 24,979
Local Time: 10:56 PM
Well it sounds like she's trying to help people in whatever way she believes she can, good for her.

I don't think most men are ultimately really all that happy going to strip clubs- I'm probably wrong about that, who knows. It's not the greatest evil in the world but if I was a guy it would seem rather empty and sad in several ways for me. It makes me think of that book that woman wrote who went undercover as a guy, she said the strip clubs were a very empty experience for the men she made friends with. Yes I would say the men who go to the clubs could use some messages too.
__________________
MrsSpringsteen is offline  
Old 02-21-2006, 02:16 PM   #9
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,482
Local Time: 10:56 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
No where do I see her saying (i) she blames women, or (ii) that she doesn't share her message with men.


[q]"I understand the culture of these girls. They respect that," said Veitch, whose work has received national and international media coverage.

In a posting on the ministry's Web site, Veitch said she was a successful Las Vegas stripper but inwardly feared that her lifestyle was a ticket to hell.

She began attending church, became a Christian, went to beauty school and got married. A year ago, she began reaching out to sex industry workers.[/q]


ticket to hell is quite strong -- i also see no empahsis whatsoever on little things like, say, lack of economic opportunities for women, especially those who might have little more than a high school degree, if that.

instead of blaming -- sorry, helping -- women for joining the "sex industry" (is she assuming all strippers are prostitutes? is there a distinction to be made between strippers and prostitutes? i'd say there's a big one, but such distinctions don't appear to be made here), why not examine why the sex industry existst to begin with, and then *why* women wind up working in strip clubs or on street corners.

it's not because they're just bad, i'm willing to bed.
__________________
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 02-21-2006, 03:15 PM   #10
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 07:56 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
ticket to hell is quite strong -- i also see no empahsis whatsoever on little things like, say, lack of economic opportunities for women, especially those who might have little more than a high school degree, if that.

instead of blaming -- sorry, helping -- women for joining the "sex industry" (is she assuming all strippers are prostitutes? is there a distinction to be made between strippers and prostitutes? i'd say there's a big one, but such distinctions don't appear to be made here), why not examine why the sex industry existst to begin with, and then *why* women wind up working in strip clubs or on street corners.

it's not because they're just bad, i'm willing to bed.
Perhaps the misunderstanding stems from the idea that Heather Veitch thought she was "going to hell" because she was a stripper.

That is not the case. In Christianity, there is only one sin that "sends you to hell" - rejection of Jesus Christ.
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 02-21-2006, 04:26 PM   #11
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 04:56 AM
I agree she doesn't seem to be there to condemn, judging from the fact she says in the article that strippers going to church is not incompatible with continuing their line of work. However, I don't see proselytizing being an adequate strategy for addressing the structural incentives to work in the sex trade that Irvine mentioned. I would like to think that pursuit of social justice should be integral to pursuit of collective salvation and that ministering to the welfare of people's souls calls for ministering to their welfare in other ways too. The article mentions that "ultimately" she would like to find funding to offer these women other alternatives--IMHO, she ought to have started there, since she is singling them out as being particularly in need of help to begin with (which why would that be, if there is truly only one sin that matters and strippers are therefore no more in need of help than other nonevangelicals; I mean, how do you justify singling out any group at all without contradicting that maxim? on what basis are you identifying a special need, and shouldn't that specialness indicate additional forms of action are called for? they're no less collectively able than, say, lawyers to find Christ on their own, right?). I think it's fine that strip clubs exist, personally, but I am concerned about the reasons many women choose to work in them.
__________________
yolland is offline  
Old 02-21-2006, 04:40 PM   #12
Blue Crack Addict
 
Liesje's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In the dog house
Posts: 19,557
Local Time: 10:56 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by yolland
I think it's fine that strip clubs exist, personally, but I am concerned about the reasons many women choose to work in them.
I've never gone to one or worked in one, but I know for many college girls with nice bodies, it's easy money. I often wonder, if I had the right look and knew how to dance....maybe I wouldn't have been $50,000 in debt before I was legally allowed to drink? Not to mention the women that do it in order to feed kids and put them through school. I think there might be two basic catagories: 1) women who for whatever reason or past traumatic experience feel the need to use their bodies and their sexuality as a method of being in control and getting attention or 2) women who do it strictly as a means of paying their bills/raising their family.
__________________
Liesje is offline  
Old 02-21-2006, 04:45 PM   #13
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 07:56 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by yolland
I agree she doesn't seem to be there to condemn, judging from the fact she says in the article that strippers going to church is not incompatible with continuing their line of work. However, I don't see proselytizing being an adequate strategy for addressing the structural incentives to work in the sex trade that Irvine mentioned. I would like to think that pursuit of social justice should be integral to pursuit of collective salvation and that ministering to the welfare of people's souls calls for ministering to their welfare in other ways too.
Ms. Veitch’s call is to address the eternal salvation of those involved in the sex trade. If you, Irvine or any others want to address socio-economic aspects of the sex trade, that’s great. I’m not sure why her focus on the spiritual becomes a target for judgment.

Quote:
Originally posted by yolland
The article mentions that "ultimately" she would like to find funding to offer these women other alternatives--IMHO, she ought to have started there, since she is singling them out as being particularly in need of help to begin with (which why would that be, if there is truly only one sin that matters and strippers are therefore no more in need of help than other nonevangelicals; I mean, how do you justify singling out any group at all without contradicting that maxim? on what basis are you identifying a special need, and shouldn't that specialness indicate additional forms of action are called for? they're no less collectively able than, say, lawyers to find Christ on their own, right?).
I’m not sure how an individual’s call to evangelize to a particular group of people becomes a de facto condemnation of their behavior. Built into your statement is the idea that Heather Veitch feels no obligation to share with other people because of some moral judgment. God give each of us different experiences, skills and abilities. Ms. Veitch is using her prior experience in a way she feels uniquely qualified. I doubt you would find much sincerity in any non-industry person (especially male) who would want to evangelize to strippers.
__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
Old 02-21-2006, 05:52 PM   #14
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 04:56 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
Ms. Veitch is using her prior experience in a way she feels uniquely qualified.
Her experience of what? Being spiritually incomplete or being a stripper? I don't buy the idea that she sees absolutely no connection between the two things, especially given the "ticket to hell" reference and "glutton" analogy which she could just as easily not have made. Does she use this language about all nonreligious people?

I can appreciate that she feels a special connection to women who work in the sex trade, but what is the nature of that connection? That she just happened to work in the same spiritually harmless field as them, or that she now regards the whole industry as spiritually unhealthy--in which case why not directly address why women are drawn into it to begin with, instead of treating it as a fait accompli that they will be and focusing all efforts on spiritual damage control after the fact?

I'm *not* questioning the sincerity of her desire to help people-- in case I didn't make that sufficiently clear the first time.
__________________
yolland is offline  
Old 02-21-2006, 06:07 PM   #15
Blue Crack Addict
 
nbcrusader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 07:56 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by yolland

Her experience of what? Being spiritually incomplete or being a stripper? I don't buy the idea that she sees absolutely no connection between the two things, especially given the "ticket to hell" reference and "glutton" analogy which she could just as easily not have made. Does she use this language about all nonreligious people?

I can appreciate that she feels a special connection to women who work in the sex trade, but what is the nature of that connection? That she just happened to work in the same spiritually harmless field as them, or that she now regards the whole industry as spiritually unhealthy--in which case why not directly address why women are drawn into it to begin with, instead of treating it as a fait accompli that they will be and focusing all efforts on spiritual damage control after the fact?
Her life experiences are similar to those already in the industry. I think we are more likely to listen to people with similar experiences than those who've never had such experiences - it carries a higher degree of credibility for some.

As such, she can speak to people already in the industry. Perhaps she will find opportunities to speak to people before they enter the industry - but saying that is far easier than actually identifying the individuals and having the opportunity to connect with them before they enter the industry.

I don't buy the "I want to evangelize one group of people" as a way of saying that connection to that group equals moral or spiritual difficiency by virtue of the connection. I bet Ms. Veitch would have a better understanding of spiritual needs than any outsider. The need can be found anywhere - Ms. Veitch has found her unique are for ministry.
__________________

__________________
nbcrusader is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:56 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com