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Old 03-18-2003, 12:21 AM   #1
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A Life Affirming View On The War Scenario

This is a forward that I just received by e-mail. I don't think it's supposed to be a proper article, but it's one of the best things I've read in a very long time...


WORDS OF WISDOM FROM DR ROBERT MULLER

Dr. Robert Muller, former assistant secretary general of the United Nations, now Chancellor Emeritus of the University of Peace in Costa Rica was one of the people who witnessed the founding of the U.N. and has worked in support of or inside the U.N. ever since. Recently he was in San Francisco to be honored for his service to the world through the U.N. and through his writings and teachings for peace. At age eighty, Dr. Muller surprised, even stunned, many in the audience that day with his most positive assessment of where the world stands now regarding war and peace.

"I'm so honored to be here," he said. "I'm so honored to be alive at such a miraculous time in history. I'm so moved by what's going on in our world today." (I was shocked. I thought -- Where has he been? What has he been reading? Has he seen the newspapers? Is he senile? Has he lost it? What is he talking about?) Dr. Muller proceeded to say, "Never before in the history of the world has there been a global, visible, public, viable, open dialogue and conversation about the very legitimacy of war".

The whole world is in now having this critical and historic dialogue--listening to all kinds of points of view and positions about going to war or not going to war. In a huge global public conversation the world is asking-"Is war legitimate? Is it illegitimate? Is there enough evidence to warrant an attack? Is there not enough evidence to warrant an attack? What will be the consequences? The costs? What will happen after a war? How will this set off other conflicts? What might be peaceful alternatives? What kind of negotiations are we not thinking of? What are the real intentions for declaring war?"

All of this, he noted, is taking place in the context of the United Nations Security Council, the body that was established in 1949 for exactly this purpose. He pointed out that it has taken us more than fifty years to realize that function, the real function of the U.N. And at this moment in history-- the United Nations is at the center of the stage. It is the place where these conversations are happening, and it has become in these last months and weeks, the most powerful governing body on earth, the most powerful container for the world's effort to wage peace rather than war. Dr. Muller was almost in tears in recognition of the fulfillment of this dream.

"We are not at war," he kept saying. We, the world community, are WAGING peace. It is difficult, hard work. It is constant and we must not let up. It is working and it is an historic milestone of immense proportions. It has never happened before-never in human history-and it is happening now-every day every hour-waging peace through a global conversation. He pointed out that the conversation questioning the validity of going to war has gone on for hours, days, weeks, months and now more than a year, and it may go on and on. "We're in peacetime," he kept saying. "Yes, troops are being moved. Yes, warheads are being lined up. Yes, the aggressor is angry and upset and spending a billion dollars a day preparing to attack. But not one shot has been fired. Not one life has been lost. There is no war. It's all a conversation."

It is tense, it is tough, it is challenging, AND we are in the most significant and potent global conversation and public dialogue in the
history of the world. This has not happened before on this scale ever before - not before WWI or WWII, not before Vietnam or Korea, this is new and it is a stunning new era of Global listening, speaking, and responsibility.

In the process, he pointed out, new alliances are being formed. Russia and China on the same side of an issue is an unprecedented outcome. France and Germany working together to wake up the world to a new way of seeing the situation. The largest peace demonstrations in the history of the world are taking place--and we are not at war! Most peace demonstrations in recent history took place when a war was already waging, sometimes for years, as in the case of Vietnam.

"So this," he said, "is a miracle. This is what "waging peace" looks like."

No matter what happens, history will record that this is a new era, and that the 21st century has been initiated with the world in a global dialogue looking deeply, profoundly and responsibly as a global community at the legitimacy of the actions of a nation that is desperate to go to war.

Through these global peace-waging efforts, the leaders of that nation are being engaged in further dialogue, forcing them to rethink, and allowing all nations to participate in the serious and horrific decision to go to war or not.

Dr. Muller also made reference to a recent New York Times article that pointed out that up until now there has been just one superpower – the United States, and that that has created a kind of blindness in the vision of the U.S. But now, Dr. Muller asserts, there are two superpowers: the United States and the merging, surging voice of the people of the world.

All around the world, people are waging peace. To Robert Muller, one of the great advocates of the United Nations, it is nothing short of a miracle and it is working.
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Old 03-18-2003, 06:33 AM   #2
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Good reading indeed Michael. For me the part below is disturbing, because it gets me thinking about my own feelings towards US nowadays. I donīt like what I have felt. No, I donīt.

Dr. Muller also made reference to a recent New York Times article that pointed out that up until now there has been just one superpower – the United States, and that that has created a kind of blindness in the vision of the U.S. But now, Dr. Muller asserts, there are two superpowers: the United States and the merging, surging voice of the people of the world.

I ask why it has to be that way...why?

A possible answer...

It's no secret that the stars are falling from the sky
The universe exploded 'cause of one man's lie


But maybe thereīs still hope...

We're one, but we're not the same
We get to
Carry each other
Carry each other
One...



Pointless silly songs.
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Old 03-18-2003, 08:19 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by follower
Good reading indeed Michael. For me the part below is disturbing, because it gets me thinking about my own feelings towards US nowadays. I donīt like what I have felt. No, I donīt.

Dr. Muller also made reference to a recent New York Times article that pointed out that up until now there has been just one superpower – the United States, and that that has created a kind of blindness in the vision of the U.S. But now, Dr. Muller asserts, there are two superpowers: the United States and the merging, surging voice of the people of the world.

I ask why it has to be that way...why?

A possible answer...

It's no secret that the stars are falling from the sky
The universe exploded 'cause of one man's lie


But maybe thereīs still hope...

We're one, but we're not the same
We get to
Carry each other
Carry each other
One...



Pointless silly songs.
I can understand your feeling Follower. It's even more difficult to feel that way about your own government. I'm becoming more and more disillusioned with the gov't.

Last night a poll showed 78% wanted UN involvement, but my President is not listening. I guess he will in November 2004.
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Old 03-18-2003, 10:17 AM   #4
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Re: A Life Affirming View On The War Scenario

Quote:
Originally posted by Michael Griffiths
Dr. Muller also made reference to a recent New York Times article that pointed out that up until now there has been just one superpower – the United States, and that that has created a kind of blindness in the vision of the U.S. But now, Dr. Muller asserts, there are two superpowers: the United States and the merging, surging voice of the people of the world.

All around the world, people are waging peace.
[/B]
Good post, Michael Griffiths.

Shouldnīt the merging, surging voice of the people of the world, including people from every country, be the only real superpower?

That makes me think of the difference between a dictatorship and democracy on a world level. Mind you, officially we in the West are all great, free democracies.

But who decides? What is the difference between an elected leader, deciding to go to war against the majority of the very people in his own country (not to mention worldwide), and a dictator who does whatever he wants in order to keep his power?

The practical difference, not the theoretical one on paper.
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Old 03-18-2003, 11:12 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scarletwine


I can understand your feeling Follower. It's even more difficult to feel that way about your own government. I'm becoming more and more disillusioned with the gov't.

Last night a poll showed 78% wanted UN involvement, but my President is not listening. I guess he will in November 2004.
Thanks for understanding Scarletwine. I grew up as a great admirer of your country, the people, the ideas. Now Iīm feeling a bit like Bono, you know, that love-hate relationship he seems to feel and live with.

I understand that itīs even more difficult to you. I hope you have a chance to make a better choice next time.
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Old 03-18-2003, 11:43 AM   #6
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Originally posted by follower


Thanks for understanding Scarletwine. I grew up as a great admirer of your country, the people, the ideas. Now Iīm feeling a bit like Bono, you know, that love-hate relationship he seems to feel and live with.

I understand that itīs even more difficult to you. I hope you have a chance to make a better choice next time.

I have a similar feeling, follower, and I'm from the U.S. also. I am amazed that the politicians are apparently not going to listen to us until Election Day. Having Election Days sure as hell doesn't prevent massive screw-ups and disasters. It's so frustrating to me that my own government is acting like this. What to do?
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Old 03-18-2003, 11:51 AM   #7
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I have a similar feeling, follower, and I'm from the U.S. also. I am amazed that the politicians are apparently not going to listen to us until Election Day. Having Election Days sure as hell doesn't prevent massive screw-ups and disasters. It's so frustrating to me that my own government is acting like this. What to do?
Exactly! We live in a "democracy" which in reality means we get to vote once every four years (or three years, or five years depending on where you live) and then have NO say at all over what the government does in between elections. We hardly even have an opportunity to hold our local elected officials to account, let along our nationally elected representatives.
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Old 03-18-2003, 12:29 PM   #8
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Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees


Exactly! We live in a "democracy" which in reality means we get to vote once every four years (or three years, or five years depending on where you live) and then have NO say at all over what the government does in between elections. We hardly even have an opportunity to hold our local elected officials to account, let along our nationally elected representatives.
I know! Between Election Days we can get screwed for all they care.
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Old 03-18-2003, 10:13 PM   #9
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lol, kind of sinks in uneasy, huh? one vote every two/four years... it would be encredibly different if our corrupt leaders actually were held accountable. unfortunately, i think, there are but a handful left that aren't more accountable to the political agenda and special interests, than to their constituants.
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Old 03-18-2003, 10:33 PM   #10
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Our government is so fucked up it's not even funny. Bush has just ticked me off so much lately, on so many things...argh...I sincerely want him to lose in 2004. Four years with him is bad enough. We don't need him for another four years.

And speaking of Bush, by the way, how many more times is he (or anyone else for that matter) gonna say the phrase "weapons of mass destruction". My family watched Bush's speech last night, and just for grins and giggles, we counted how many times he said that phrase in his fifteen minute speech.

He said it five times within fifteen minutes, three of those times being just within the first five minutes!

Does anyone else realize how redundant that phrase is? Yeah, weapons are gonna cause destruction, in this case it'll be mass destruction-that's pretty much a given.

And it's so overused by our government-I swear, if I hear them utter it one more time I'll scream.

That's a little off the main discussion of the thread, but I just wanted to vent about that, 'cause it's really been bugging me lately.

Anywho-someone mentioned the whole love-hate relationship Bono has with America-some of you said you know what that's like...so do I. Some days I couldn't be prouder to live here.

Other days...well...

Angela
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Old 03-18-2003, 10:38 PM   #11
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Ahh Angela, for such a young soul you are so smart.
I too am sick of that saying. Homeland Security also want me to goosestep along.

What a coincidence.
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Old 03-18-2003, 11:10 PM   #12
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Homeland Security also want me to goosestep along.
Hi Scarletwine,
The word 'goosestep' is not really welcome here. There are some people who become highly offended by it. I had warned deathbear about repeated use of the word in the past.
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Old 03-19-2003, 01:42 AM   #13
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Originally posted by Scarletwine


I can understand your feeling Follower. It's even more difficult to feel that way about your own government. I'm becoming more and more disillusioned with the gov't.

Last night a poll showed 78% wanted UN involvement, but my President is not listening. I guess he will in November 2004.
78% *prefer* UN involvement, but most still support action either way:

http://www.pollingreport.com/iraq.htm
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Old 03-19-2003, 02:22 AM   #14
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Need I also remind you that by a 3 to 1 ratio Americans are in support of the American Cause in Iraq... and to you my dear Fizzing... As your country's public opinion soars in favor of the American/Morally Right Cause in Iraq, your parliament just passed a 412 to 129 vote in confidence in support of Tony Blair...

People, Just keep this in mind when you bitch about how the Citizens of your nations really don't support, have any real influence in the actions of your nation.

Mr. Pink
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Old 03-19-2003, 08:35 AM   #15
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71% Support action against Iraq now???

So basically 7% change their mind when the UN is not involved?

Sounds like the President is representing his constituencey exactly the way they wish to be represented.
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