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Old 06-29-2007, 10:42 AM   #16
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The enforcing chastity thing is an insult. So you have to have the only part of the body that gives a female sexual pleasure cut out, and your vaginal opening sewn shut? That has got to be painful, and insulting. It's like calling all females potential sluts! And besides, it's usually a man who forces himself on the girl more than her choosing to become promiscuous. It has always seemed to me it would create a hotbed for dangerous infections inside the girl or woman that could lead to sterility or even death. That alone is a sensible reason for ending the practice.
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Old 06-29-2007, 03:45 PM   #17
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Quote:
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this is the worst troll of any thread ever
Deep is not being a troll. Please don't wrongfully accuse members of trolling. Also, if you truly feel a member is trolling, report the post to the moderators so we can handle it.
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Old 06-29-2007, 07:33 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Butterscotch
The enforcing chastity thing is an insult.
The means of enforcement in this case is horrifically extreme, but as far as the 'insult' goes, you'd be hard-pressed to come up with many traditional (or not-so-traditional) societies where 'chastity' of women isn't a major concern. That's not difficult to understand; if your daughter gets pregnant outside of marriage (or once married, bears a child clearly not her husband's), than chances are the needed years of material support from the father and/or his family won't be in the offing, and you'll be stuck helping support another kid yourself, while continuing to support a daughter who'll be that much harder to marry off to some desirable match now that she comes with someone else's kid in tow. At least traditional cultures which attempt to strictly enforce monogamy for both sexes make an effort to distribute the misery more equitably, though whether they reliably yield a result any better than the one sula's describing could be debated. Particularly in the absence of widespread and affordable access to effective contraception, publically funded support for single mothers, and paid work opportunities for women, this is simply a basic, irreducible vulnerability of being born female (or having a daughter). Some cultures' traditional patterns of family organization and property inheritance may be more helpful here than others, but the basic concern is a practical and understandable one, unpleasant though the reality may be.
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Old 06-29-2007, 08:25 PM   #19
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But is a mutilated, sewn up vagina the answer? I don't even want to imagine the periods and the cramps, the discharge, the internal itching, must be torture. And again, the threat of infection being so much greater as you create a literal hothhouse for germs without any exposure to air. Then when she does get to have sex, it will be painful and without pleasure. It's all for the good of the man, and all she gets is suffering. In these days, unlike the ancient times, girls marry much much later, girls will have much longer time to stay sewn up. I'm sorry but it angers me and makes me sick.
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Old 06-29-2007, 09:06 PM   #20
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Of course it isn't the answer, and there's nothing to be 'sorry' for in recoiling at the practice; I certainly didn't mean to suggest either of those things. It's just that discussions of traditional cultural practices which we find repellent and unacceptable can tend to spin off into the stratosphere in terms of what sorts of motives we ascribe to them sometimes. My point was that, as far as it goes, there's nothing shocking or mystifying or sinister about why attempting to regulate and control female sexuality is a near-universal preoccupation of traditional societies. Humans do intellectualize and ritualize things, so you get notions of 'purity' and 'cleanliness' and so on intertwined with what are often essentially practical concerns; that can make them seem all the more foreign to others, though, then there's also the reality that these aspects of our thinking can wind up inflicting cruelties and creating problems worse than any we were trying to avoid.
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Old 06-29-2007, 09:51 PM   #21
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Couldn't they just wait and see IF a girl becomes promiscuous first, before labeling and mutilating them all in advance?
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Old 06-29-2007, 09:56 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep
What ?

banning the right to practice religious beliefs is a great day?
Are you serious?
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Old 06-29-2007, 10:00 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Butterscotch
Couldn't they just wait and see IF a girl becomes promiscuous first, before labeling and mutilating them all in advance?
OMG.....this thread is doing my head in......over and out.
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Old 06-29-2007, 10:35 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Butterscotch
Couldn't they just wait and see IF a girl becomes promiscuous first, before labeling and mutilating them all in advance?
By then it's too late and the damage has already been done.

In societies where "purity" of women is a (and possibly THE) major factor in whether or not they have an semblance of a decent life it is imperative there be no "if".

Does that make it right? No, but given the culture it does make sense. And understanding the rationale behind the practice is essential to have any chance of ending the practice.
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Old 06-30-2007, 03:13 PM   #25
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II'm really kind of surprised at how many of you seem to be almost justifying it. We've known basically all along their reasons for doing it, that doesn't change a thing about how barbaric, abusive, and unhealthy it is to a girl. It makes no difference, it still needs to be stopped, now.
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Old 06-30-2007, 03:25 PM   #26
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No one justifies the procedure itself and everybody has made that very clear.
But there lies some reasoning behind these people carrying out the female circumcision and yolland, sula as well as other poster's tried to explain that.
And like indra said, you need to understand why the circumcision is done in order to teach these people why it's such a bad and cruel tradition they need to get rid of.
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Old 06-30-2007, 03:33 PM   #27
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I do understand it. I always have. It doesn't make any difference. It's still wrong.
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Old 06-30-2007, 03:48 PM   #28
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That's too high for me.
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Old 06-30-2007, 04:26 PM   #29
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*sigh*.. we all wish by just saying that "it's wrong".. would make it all go away. The key factor here Education..
It takes a long time to educate a culture or continent that has practiced a cultural procedure for so long.
Education is changing this mind set - slowly.. yes, but changing non the less.
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Old 06-30-2007, 05:33 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by Butterscotch
II'm really kind of surprised at how many of you seem to be almost justifying it. We've known basically all along their reasons for doing it, that doesn't change a thing about how barbaric, abusive, and unhealthy it is to a girl. It makes no difference, it still needs to be stopped, now.
I have to agree with you here. I guess I expected more outrage, rather than all this "understanding about cultural norms." It is barbaric and it's mutilation done to children.

I do understand the need to educate, but we can wait for that to happen and have another generation of women mutilated in the meantime.
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