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Old 08-18-2004, 09:01 AM   #31
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perhaps is a cool word

si is twelve
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Old 08-18-2004, 09:07 AM   #32
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This has everything to do with the way the international community rewards terror, it is not just about sport. The Olympic Games isnt the issue it is the IOC, an international organization which has chosen to reward the Palestinian Leadership for their actions - that is what this is about, rewarding terror and becoming an enabler of terrorism by refusing to condemn it.

The Olympic Games were the stage for the most brazen act of Palestinian Violence against innocent people. The Black September terrorists were able to sieze the worlds attention by taking Israeli Athletes hostage, the fact that the IOC will invite the only group to ever attack the Olympic Games to join in but refuse to allow any official reciognition or rememberance for the victims of that terrorism is the hypocracy. That is why I question the validity of a Palestinian team to compete in the Olympics, it is just another chapter of the international community rewarding terrorism. You will not see a Tibetan Olympic team for that very reason, they are unable to grab attention and become the archetypal victim who can do no wrong. The Palestinians would not be at the Olympics if they never resorted to terror, now even if they did use terror to achieve their ends by 2000 they were able to have their demands met, they refused and began a renewed campaign of violence, this campaign has not been stopped by the Palestinians - the continue to coordinate attacks however thanks to some very good operations by the Israelis the frequency has dropped, but they have not stopped terror and I do not think that giving them reciognition when they havent even done anything productive is wrong.
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Old 08-18-2004, 09:28 AM   #33
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Here here Angela!!! Maybe some are looking past the point that maybe the Olympics will give those citizens who are spending their lives training, who are spending their lives avoiding terrorism some hope for the future.
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Old 08-18-2004, 04:13 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
This has everything to do with the way the international community rewards terror, it is not just about sport. The Olympic Games isnt the issue it is the IOC, an international organization which has chosen to reward the Palestinian Leadership for their actions - that is what this is about, rewarding terror and becoming an enabler of terrorism by refusing to condemn it.

The Olympic Games were the stage for the most brazen act of Palestinian Violence against innocent people. The Black September terrorists were able to sieze the worlds attention by taking Israeli Athletes hostage, the fact that the IOC will invite the only group to ever attack the Olympic Games to join in but refuse to allow any official reciognition or rememberance for the victims of that terrorism is the hypocracy. That is why I question the validity of a Palestinian team to compete in the Olympics, it is just another chapter of the international community rewarding terrorism. You will not see a Tibetan Olympic team for that very reason, they are unable to grab attention and become the archetypal victim who can do no wrong. The Palestinians would not be at the Olympics if they never resorted to terror, now even if they did use terror to achieve their ends by 2000 they were able to have their demands met, they refused and began a renewed campaign of violence, this campaign has not been stopped by the Palestinians - the continue to coordinate attacks however thanks to some very good operations by the Israelis the frequency has dropped, but they have not stopped terror and I do not think that giving them reciognition when they havent even done anything productive is wrong.
Once again you're labelling ALL Palestinians as terrorists. Quite frankly that's a pretty bad position to take. What this one athlete is doing has absolutely no connection to what the Palestinians did in Munich or what some of his fellow countrymen are doing at home. Might as well call all Americans racist and pro-slavery, and all Germans fascists, and all Australians criminals.

Here's a wild, crazy, far-fetched hypothetical: What if this Palestinian athlete actually deserves to be in the Olympics based on his performance in the sport and in the trials?

I would feel much better about your argument if you did not include sweeping statements that basically label all Palestinians as murderers. It is flat out wrong to make that leap in logic.
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Old 08-18-2004, 04:25 PM   #35
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[double post]
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Old 08-19-2004, 05:57 AM   #36
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I have no problem with the athlete, those were crappy jokes about possible competitions that the Palestinians could compete in.

The Olympic games has a lot to do with national pride. I think that rewarding the Palestinian Authority for 40 years of terror is wrong, giving a group of thugs and terrorists (The PA) reciognition in the world is what this does and it is rewarding them, I would cheer loudly for the Palestinians if they were given that spot after abandoning mass murder and seeking coexistance with Jews instead of sending some of their kids out to be mass murderers.
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Old 08-19-2004, 10:06 AM   #37
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A brief question for those of you infuriated by the presence of a Palestinian team: What national team would you prefer to see Palestinian athletes competing in?
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Old 08-19-2004, 10:56 AM   #38
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This is somewhat of a problem. Palestinians athletes can't really compete in the name of an "alternative" country. Unlike N.Ireland (GB), Tibet (China), and so on. I think it's wrong to punish the athletes for the terror the Palestinian authority is supporting. If human rights issues were a factor on whether a country should be allowed to participate in the Olympics, who knows how many countries would have been banned. In general, I don't like it when citizens of a country are being sanctioned for what their government is doing.

But, I've bothered to search in the official web site of the games. The name listed there is Palestine and not the Palestinian authority. Yes, we know that eventually there will be a Palestinian state, but the IOC can't make that call on its own. It's a political statement that goes way beyond the IOC's role and doesn't really have anything to do with the Olympic spirit. Just like it can't declare N.Ireland not being part of GB anymore. And here, this argument is relevant.

Palestinians athletes, by all means, have the right to compete in the Olympics, but it's not the IOC's place to declare the authority as a state.
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Old 08-19-2004, 01:21 PM   #39
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Palestinians athletes, by all means, have the right to compete in the Olympics, but it's not the IOC's place to declare the authority as a state.
I agree with you. Would you object if the IOC allowed a delegation under the name 'Palestinian Authority' rather than 'Palestine?' That would recognise that Palestine isn't a state (although it may be in the future) but avoid denying athletes who define themselves as Palestinian the opportunity to compete in the games. It would also be quite similar to allowing a team called 'Chinese Taipei' rather than 'Taiwan' as that also recognises Taiwan isn't an independent state.
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Old 08-19-2004, 07:14 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by FizzingWhizzbees


Would you object if the IOC allowed a delegation under the name 'Palestinian Authority' rather than 'Palestine?' That would recognise that Palestine isn't a state (although it may be in the future) but avoid denying athletes who define themselves as Palestinian the opportunity to compete in the games.
Yes, I think it's the right way to do this.
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Old 08-19-2004, 09:59 PM   #41
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Are the Iraqi soccer team terrorists?
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Old 08-19-2004, 10:06 PM   #42
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Angela Harlem =

I don't see the enormous problem. If Taiwan (competing under the name of Chinese Taipei) is allowed to compete - also an occupied nation - then why not Palestine? If you deny Palestine (although I do agree with the "Palestinian Authority" idea), but let Taiwan in, then it's hypocritical and a double-standard.
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Old 08-19-2004, 10:16 PM   #43
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What are the stats? 192 countries in the world, yet 202 "nations" marched in the opening ceremonies, so it seems that the IOC is somewhat lax with their definitions.

To be honest, I think the problems in Israel/West Bank/Gaza are so complex that this is hardly an issue worthy of much attention. There are more pressing matters. Frankly, I've had it up to here with the leadership of both sides. I feel sorry for the people, but enough is enough and ridiculous is ridiculous. People terrorizing a population and blowing up children in a pizzeria and people grabbing land and purposely instigating the other side by expanding the land grabs and all of it is just ridiculous. Some holy land that is, holding the rest of the world hostage in a way. How different do you think the world would be if that piece of land did not exist or if there was no claim to it by either side? Sometimes I really, really wish that was the case.
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Old 08-19-2004, 10:48 PM   #44
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192 countries in the world

i think it is closer to 300






Quote:
How different do you think the world would be if that piece of land did not exist or if there was no claim to it by either side? Sometimes I really, really wish that was the case.
melon has said this before, too

there is nothing "holy" about it.
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Old 08-20-2004, 01:47 AM   #45
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DaveC, Taiwan is NOT an occupied nation, it was setup by the nationalists after the civil war with the communists and they were the reciognized China at the UN for quite a while. The Mainland regime desires to unify all of its territories by removing any government seperate, that is why you see the actions in Hong Kong and a much harsher level in Tibet. Taiwan however remains independent and elects it own government, China doesnt want this to continue and it leaves the world one of the largest flashpoints. The competing name of Chinese Taipei is simply there to keep the Chinese happy and not give the US a major diplomatic headache.

A more apt situation would be Tibet, where there is a brutal occupation where many atrocities are commited in the name of pacifying the people. They do not have a team at the Olympic games.

The Palestinian athlete should compete for Jordan and the area that they desire to see a Palestinian state in must be absorbed into neighboring Arab countries, there is no way you can have a viable state existing in such a small ammount of land with so many people without much to offer it - sad but true.
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