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Old 08-17-2004, 02:41 PM   #16
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Well that he is, especially with the stupid plastic cap and goggles off

But I couldn't believe no one even on TV had said 'damn the thorpedo' yet
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Old 08-17-2004, 03:32 PM   #17
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*is considering the irony that the discussion is now about the sport the Palestine athlete was also competing in: swimming*
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Old 08-18-2004, 03:22 AM   #18
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Old 08-18-2004, 06:52 AM   #19
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What a shining example of irony.


This thread is repulsive. Well done.
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Old 08-18-2004, 07:11 AM   #20
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Repulsive, why?

Isnt it wrong that a bunch of terrorists (the Palestinian Leadership, not the Palestinian People) are rewarded for violence by becoming a reciognized group in the eyes of the international community, they havent even abandoned violence and they are given this - to me that is what is truly repulsive in this whole sorry affair.
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Old 08-18-2004, 07:32 AM   #21
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Please answer honestly, do you not see why some of the views expressed in this thread are not really fine and dandy? Please tell me if you at least understand where I might be coming from here.
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Old 08-18-2004, 07:50 AM   #22
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The only thing I found not quite right was AchtungBono's views about Greeks, other than that I cannot see anything wrong with being appauled at the IOC for giving a place in the Olympics to the "Palestinians".

I think that you may be coming from the angle that its wrong to be against any particular nations right to be at an Olympics when they have suffered so much for it. That it underplays Palestinian rights of self-determination that have been undermined in the world by Israel and her allies and that it does nobody any good to get angry about it. Or possibly that this condemnation isnt in the spirit of the Olympics and it is about international peace and brotherhood, a celebration of humanity.

Im sorry in advance because I am pretty sure that most of that argument above doesn't fit you but I have talked to so many commited "anti-Zionists" it has made be quite jaded to those who are blindly (not that you necissarily are) pro-Palestinian. AchtungBono's statements may seem insensitive at first glance but I agree with the core arguments totally - this is rewarding terrorism and that is wrong. I would really like to hear where you are coming from on this part, I think that we are all mature enough to respect eachothers opinion even though there may be disagreement - but hey, thats what FYM is all about (that and an elaborate drinking game I have invented - One Drink for every time Sting posts "verifiably disarmed", One For.....)
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Old 08-18-2004, 08:18 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by ActhungBono
Then I started to think, what sport could this "athlete" possibly participate in....hmmm....lets see, what is "Palestine" good at? Oh yes....actually SEVERAL events come to mind - bomb throwing, rock hurling, mine planting and missile launching, to name a few. And then (just in case they do win a medal) the highlight of their activity could be to stand on the podium, get the medal and then blow himself up together with those next to him....oh yes....the Palestinians are EXPERT at that.....
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
I myself was considering the Olympic events the Palestinians could stage.
- Shooting, only instead of aiming at targets with precision it is indiscrimate fire at a moving vehicle as it drives down a road, bonus points if you can shoot the targets inside at Point Blank range.
- Scavanger Hunt, one hundred frenzied compeditors, one blown up car and one corpse; the person with the most pieces of flesh in their hand after a minute wins.
- 200 Metre Dash, just like the run into Israel the compeditors must race over the border without accedentily tripping their bomb belts (this event may be cancelled due to the construction of security barrier, or Freedom Fence as I call it whenever I see someone scream out Aparteid Wall.)
- Shot put, well of course ideal sport because its all about throwing big heavy things around.
I think it's statements like these that Angela (and I) might find repulsive. While the real meat of this issue should be why Palestine is being recognized as a country when it is in fact not one, statements like these suggest that all Palestinians are blood-thirsty and indiscriminantly murderous terrorists. I hope you can see the fault in that approach.
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Old 08-18-2004, 08:26 AM   #24
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Yes, it's statement's like those Diemen posted that made me avoid this thread.
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Old 08-18-2004, 08:29 AM   #25
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Actually, and while I appreciate you haven't assumed, it really has little to do with Palestine itself.

I'll try and keep my opinionated rambling as brief as possible and one point per paragraph (for once lol).

First off, this is sport. Elite sport where the whole point is for the best to be proud, for nations to be proud, for rivalry to involve the best tall poppy you have. Politics is never far away, because people can't let it go. But the whole point is to play at sport, forget our differences and have fun for 16 days.

As for the sole athlete from the alleged nation of Palestine, the reasons given for him not belonging there are not unique to his or the region's situation. If we want to bring up examples of terrorism or violence in backing up a belief, then by all means ban from participation, China, Israel, the USA, Australia, Rep. Ireland, Britain, New Zealand, Canada, Trinidad and Tobago, Papua New Guinea, Chile, etc etc etc. No country participating has a clean slate. We are not represented by the few who give terrorism a name or face. We are not entire nations of these groups.

As for the argument that Israel is going to have the shits and using N. Ireland and England as an example, is emotional and irrational. England does not decide who particpates any more than Israel does. It is the IOC like you say. As for ATHOC and their support, how much wrangling was there from SOCOG and the IOC? Did you hear about all the fights down your way?

The direct insult to this "athlete" was a cheap shot. What would he be good at? List examples of actions of terrorists. Maybe the American athletes are not only great swimmers and 100m sprinters, but perhaps they are great at pre-emptive strikes. Perhaps they are familiar with the bringing down of dictators. Surely you can accept how weak this particular argument is?

We all talk of how politics doesn't belong in sport, yet here we are. The pot meets the kettle. We're all black, right?

The only point with any benefit is the question of whether Palestine can be recognised as a nation on it's own. But frankly, this is about sport - this whole Olympics caper. Not whether Israel or Palestine is right, in this case.


Sport, people! Sport.
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Old 08-18-2004, 08:32 AM   #26
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I take ages to type, and still make no sense, and also manage to post 3 posts after everyone else so all hope of sense is GAWN!

Woe is me. Diemen said it much more succinct.

/fantabulous grammar.

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Old 08-18-2004, 08:37 AM   #27
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Old 08-18-2004, 08:37 AM   #28
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But the thing is that these are actual things that occur on a regular basis and it is well documented for all to see. Shooting at the IDF during protests occurs, rock throwing happens, trying to sneak into Israel did occur until the fence was put up, people tore the bodies of those killed in a missile strike to pieces and held up the flesh in front of the cameras. This isnt just mindless statements without any basis in the real world, these are events that have happened and continue to hapen that as unsavoury as they are mustnt be overlooked.

Tale a good long look at the way they indocrinate children, using UNICEF assistance to drill them into the mantra of "I am willing to Martyr Myself", sending kids to go out and lob rocks at soldiers. They are victims here, I get angry that they are used like that, and my anger turns to those that pull the strings - Yassir Arafat and the PA terrorist crooks who are the ones that benefit the most from this IOC decision and the UN.

They may be in bad taste as jokes but they are factual things that are done by Palestinians, I would like to say that most Palestinians are really good people who stand up against terror but that simply isnt true, those that resist the terrorists are killed so people will either support the terrorists or simply let it slide out of fear. We have to stop rewarding terrorism and that is what this is about, this thread is politics and not sport and that is what we should be debating.
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Old 08-18-2004, 08:45 AM   #29
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Now all you're doing is listing actions the terrorists are known for. I dont think anyone is trying to say they're not really all that bad, and are infact a 'tops bunch of folk'.
Lumping the entire (still alleged?) nation of Palestine together is what I and I think others are questioning, and how what the actions of some, can lead to questions of the validity of this sole athlete participating.

If we want to debate again, the legitimacy of the Israeli/Palestine land, by all means do it. But what it has to do with sport and the Olympics is perhaps hatemongering of it's own.
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Old 08-18-2004, 08:48 AM   #30
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- perhaps

I agree
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