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Old 11-11-2004, 11:44 PM   #16
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It's just an opinion. That's all the British are doing, and you apparently can't stand other people having different opinions, and therefore...you sound like...(are you ready for this?)...an unpatriotic individual. How's that? Hmmm...? I mean, freedom of thought and opinion is a freedom here in the states, so why get so damn irritated that people are expressing one, and making you second-guess your cock-sure attitude about world diplomacy and the U.S.'s role in it?

Could you be terribly afraid that you're wrong?

Could it be that all of these Bushites are so afraid to use their brains, that they'd ignore the concerns of the global community?

Hardly, right?

Well, my opinion (this is the part when Kerry supporters continue to read, while Bush supporters hit the REPLY option and rail against me) is that Bush is a moron; plain and simple. Now, as a leader, I'm sure he makes average thinkers feel more comfortable with the state of the union...sad indeed. I on the other hand don't claim to be a great mind, nor do I profess that Kerry had all the answers. But I do firmly believe that in a nuclear age, a terrorist age, a chaotic age, that an erudite, war veteran, and experienced diplomat is a better choice for OUR LEADER than a bumbling New Englander with a phony Texas dialect.

(Talk about a deceptive liar...what IS with Bush's dialect? I mean, nobody else in his family talks like that...not one single person. Gosh that bothers me)
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Old 11-12-2004, 12:40 AM   #17
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Ok, the "Sorry" site has a far higher percentage of cute girls, while the "Not Sorry" site has a very high percentage of dickheads with guns (what the fuck is wrong with these people?)
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Old 11-12-2004, 01:11 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
This Girl Ain't Sorry.



And she got a blog
http://www.risawn.com/blogger.html
What is this - the rise of Hitler Youth in America. I love the country but am getting seriously concerned about

1) Gov't right to detain anyone for an indefinite period without charge
2) Planned introduction of passports that contain main personal details implanted in a chip that can be read from 50 yds away without the owner even knowing
3) Fingerprinting and photographing of foreigners on arrival
4) The military guy on Fox news yesterday who said something like "Well hell if you are hiding out in a mosque in Fallujah we're gonna shoot at ya cos some of your buddies have been shootin at us." The war was supposed to be about regime change and dismantling weapons of mass destruction. Regime is changes. No weapons of mass destruction. Now it's about empire building
5) Above all the we are right and you are wrong / with us or against us attitude that has permeated US foreign policy
6) Claiming to fight for freedom when citizens in the US are increasingly restricted. FCC & Bono case (now Saving Private Ryan), protest against the gov't and you can expect a visit from a friendly FBI suit.

My comparisons with Nazi-ism are not tongue-in-cheek and I don't mean to insult anyone here. Just that I feel the above points ought to be ringing more alarm bells.

God Bless America
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Old 11-12-2004, 01:34 AM   #19
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I think that that is a very alarmist position, speak all you want about an American Reich while some recognize the threat to civilization posed by radical Islam which in essence ammounts to an apocalyptic death cult.

Do we see the end of political discussion in the public arena?

Are academics that do not support the Bush White House prevented from voicing their opposition?

Is Hollywood controlled by the government to make only pro-Bush propaganda?

Are the likes of Michael Moore and Tim Robbins taken out into the middle of Nevada to dig a shallow grave and then have their brains blown out?

Is there a cult of personality leadership being defined by Bush where people worship the man in a new state enforced religion?

Do we see the emergence of a single party state?

Are those in Guantanamo being denied all legal representation?

Do we see rabid anti-Islamic sentiment being fostered by the government, the forced closing down of Mosques and the deliberate and coordinated persecution of Muslims by means of government policy?

Do we see internment camps for all Muslims with total lockdown for converts?

As long as people are free to call Bush the moral equivalent of Adolf Hitler and speak out on behalf of those that wish to exterminate them I think we can be satisfied that a free society is being maintained. There have been some big blunders by the beaurocrats over how to deal with terrorism, but there have been more than enough citizens and insiders who point out those mistakes to now end and make big wads of cash doing so. America is free and will remain free as long as there are citizens willing to fight for those freedoms, be it on the battlefield or in the courtroom against any threat to individuality or unwarranted influence from outside or within.

So I implore you all, if you hate your government - say it. Scream it out until the cows come home, call President Bush "Chimpy Bushitler the Worlds Dumbest Nazi" to your friends, talk about how Michael Moore is being "silenced" by the government, talk about every big conspiracy theory between the Millitary Industrial Complex and Neocons but don't try to blame us who disagree for persecuting you when we use our rights to voice our disagreement to your statements.
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Old 11-12-2004, 01:51 AM   #20
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Look A-Wanderer I know you're into Star Trek but we're not talking about Vulcans, Klingons and humanoids here. We're talking about human beings, human hearts, beating blood. I certainly am not "speaking out on behalf of those who wish to exterminate" anyone.

I do recognise that exploitation of public fear by governments is leading to an alarming erosion of rights. Also the polarisation of peoples whether the domestic US 50/50 split, US v. Europe, Christian v. Islam is based on fictitious premises.

Radical Islam does not pose one quarter of the threat that western media portray. Sure it sells newspapers and gets governments re-elected but a few thousand Qutabist offshoots of real Islam are nothing much more than a bunch of Wacos (Tx). They have been undermined in Egpyt and Syria by the hard action by their own governments and no quarter should be granted them elsewhere. But don't lets have this lead to a world war.

I just don’t like seeing fear being deployed as a weapon to win the minds of the populace – a tactic that has been used by many rogue governments over the years. It distracts peoples minds whilst the government take away their rights. And you can be detained without charge, or trial, indefinitely in the US now.

Just to stand back and get a perspective:

1) In his latest TV appearance Osama bin Laden stated his primary aim to be to bankrupt the US. $140bn so far to finance Operation Iraqi freedom and another $50+bn of US treasuries issued this week…
2) The latest Bush administration line is essentially that bin Laden doesn’t really matter that much and certainly US troop deployments support this stance.
3)6,500 Africans dyign every day and Fox News still talks about nothing much more than “The War On Terror” as the alert indicator goes up and down.
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Old 11-12-2004, 02:12 AM   #21
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Perhaps people have decided to go back to sleep, September 11, Bali and Madrid were abberations, the threat is overstated by our own governments and every policy decision is intended to consolidate their power using ficticious enemies, be it Nazism, Communism or "Islamism".

Maybe the cries of driving the Jews into the sea and getting young people to kill themselves just to murder innocent people has gotten to me. Perhaps the talk of Bin Laden and his idological ilk about avenging the crusades and taking the violence to the west for years sunk through into my brain when they started getting serious and blowing up Australians partying in Bali, a place of no apparent significance to the terrorists and an attack on "white meat" that had nothing to do with any of their "grievances".

Maybe you are right, these groups are not a threat, if they were supressed so very well by thuggish dictatorships in the Arab world how could they ever even aspire to take their war to the next level. Is it so inconcievable that with weapons of tremendous destructive power substantial damage could be visited upon mankind.

I am not talking about a clash of civilizations I am talking about a group which is a vast minority within a religion. Those who operate as true nternational terrorists are a minority within that minority. So you have a few thousand individuals intent on causing damage with significant funds at their disposal and the ideological motivation behind it. You cannot bomb these individuals out of existence, effective counter-terrorism measures must be enacted that do not infringe on the individual rights of citizens and there must always be proper oversight.

The fact is that some countries (notably Pakistan) have weapons which could kill millions of people and are in such a delicate political situation with regards to these fringe groups. If such a group, with enough money and just a few members was to obtain these weapons they would not hesitate to use them, this would be very bad for everybody.

There should be an open and measured discussion of these problems that lays them out on the table so that they can be dealt with without the fear mongering and politiking. I think that the actual threat is not explained properly in the media and the entire "terror alert level" is a load of rubbish, one can gather more from listening to what is said and what is known than any sensationalist rubbish. So I would like to see faster trials for those in Gitmo, the utter farce of the beurocrats trying to nail an effective legal system hardly inspires faith in their ability to counter an elusive enemy. I would like to see stronger alliances formed with countries throughout Asia. This polarity between people literally seems to be one of world view, one where the threat from terrorism is understated and one where it is overstated. I would much rather move against an opponent with too much than too little so I guess that I fall into that camp.

Check it; http://internet-haganah.com/jihadi/salafy.html, http://memri.org/
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Old 11-12-2004, 03:14 AM   #22
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The election is over- Democrats/anti-Bush supporters need to deal with it.

The Democrats should blame the liberal media for basically trying to press that John Kerry was the favored before the election. Election day proved dead wrong.

The Democrats need to work on they're image and stop blaming and making excuses- the majority of America saw through this. If not, the blue sections of the USA will get even more smaller.

All the anti-republicans need to realize that it is the Democratic party that depends and banks on the vote of the poor/lower classes. Only a Democrat would say that Republicans utilize the uneducated/ignorant vote.

The Democratic party has turned into one big Special Interest group.

If you are a Democrat and are upset by these statements- know that you can't post negative party comments and expect not to hear from the other side.
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Old 11-12-2004, 05:45 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
This Girl Ain't Sorry.



And she got a blog
http://www.risawn.com/blogger.html
You seem to have a fixation with guns and killing people. What are u trying to tell us with this picture? U trying to make some sort of statement?
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Old 11-12-2004, 05:47 AM   #24
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Originally posted by A_Wanderer
These guy and girls are better

http://www.werenotsorry.com/
Well, I go and have a look at the first page and the first thing I see is G-U-N-S. Am I surprised? Of course not!
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Old 11-12-2004, 05:55 AM   #25
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I'm not playing blame games or whatever. I'm simply staying true to myself, my values, and my dreams. Election Day didn't change me from a liberal to a conservative. By doing things like joining Howard Dean's grassroots political group, and I think it's just amazing that it even exists in a small, conservative place like Birmingham, I'm just doing what I believe in. At the end of the day, that's what you've got to do. It's better to express your feelings. I really think it's a mistake to bottle up your emotions. After all, it's terrorists and other scum who never learned to express their emotions constructively, so they turned destructive.
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Old 11-12-2004, 06:14 AM   #26
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Originally posted by wolfwill23
There seems to be a common belief among democrats that the people who voted for Bush are unintelligent, inferior to them, and downright wrong for voting the way they did. The people who voted for Bush were not wrong, they voted for who they believed in. Just like the people who voted for Kerry were not wrong either, they voted for who they believed in. The numbers do not lie. This country, as a whole, thinks that Bush is the man to lead us in a post 9-11 world. Guess what? That means that the US does not think like Europe or Canada. We have our own beliefs and values that are different than other countries’ beliefs and values. This is the country we live in.

Why can’t the democrats just move on (pardon the pun) and focus their energies on something more useful? (Like uniting the country!)

Oh, by the way, apologizing to Europe?! Puuulease! How about them apologizing for their blatent involvement in the largest heist in world history (Oil for Food Heist), and all that at the expense of innocent Iraqi people.
When u refer to Europe apologising for 'their' blatant involvement try and be a bit more specific please. I'm sure you're well aware that Europe is actually a continent of many different countries.

And spare us the bleating about 'innocent Iraqis'. Let's be honest, before they got into the mess they are in now, very few people gave a damn about the plight of the Iraq people, least of all any of us in the West. There's no point pretending that we all had their concerns at heart while the Oil for Food thing was happening.
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Old 11-12-2004, 06:20 AM   #27
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Originally posted by nbcrusader


Check the news. There were plenty of efforts by Europeans to signal which candidate they thought best. Perhaps they should have their heads examined....
If it was a case of Europeans (here we go again) trying to interfere in the domestic issues of your country u would have a point. But the result of this election was always going to have major implications for the rest of the world. Therefore, too damn right the rest of us outside the US were going to have an opinion about who we wanted to get elected. Why would anyone in the US have a problem with this?
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Old 11-12-2004, 06:36 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


Check the news. There were plenty of efforts by Europeans to signal which candidate they thought best. Perhaps they should have their heads examined....
why? the results of the election are quite liable to effect them.

its not as if american foreign policy does not affect other nations, their leadership and political direction-while these may be more subtle actions, they are arguably more effective.

-

canadian's endlessly hear veiled trade-related threats from the american ambassador and drug czar everytime proposed marijauna liberalization is discussed.

canadians suffer from american gun laws and-well no our politicians make no noise about it and i can only guess this is because of fear of american repurcussions.

it goes in all directions and is a natural reaction.

and what it really speaks to is that none of us are on an island. it is a globe encompassing created identitities that must now coexist.
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Old 11-12-2004, 07:06 AM   #29
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and what it really speaks to is that none of us are on an island. it is a globe encompassing created identitities that must now coexist.
Yes, this motivated millions of *Americans* during the election campaign. Isolation is not really possible in this day and age. It used to be possible, but it just is not anymore.
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Old 11-12-2004, 07:11 AM   #30
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That picture was lame. I'm sorry, but it was, though she's a cute girl. However I can't agree with the bottom quote.

Quote:
Radical Islam does not pose one quarter of the threat that western media portray. Sure it sells newspapers and gets governments re-elected but a few thousand Qutabist offshoots of real Islam are nothing much more than a bunch of Wacos (Tx). They have been undermined in Egpyt and Syria by the hard action by their own governments and no quarter should be granted them elsewhere. But don't lets have this lead to a world war.
When 3000 people are killed in one day while crippling our airline industry and destroying huge "monuments" such as the World Trade Center as well as shellacking the economy... I can't see it as an overrated threat.
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