A critical view on Bono's Drop th Debt Campaign

[Soul Always]

Hi Soul Always!

Michael and Boston Anne (how ARE you girl??) have made some really good points. I'd add a couple more.

1. Remember, the Irish government has a great national statement on debt cancellation. It's not just Bono who sees this issue as important, it seems to be an Irish thing. My guess is, he feels like he has a duty to use his fame for some greater purpose than himself.

2. Remember, Africa's problem is NOT simply a lack of money. Bono could round up every friend in Hollywood and London that he's got and EMPTY their bank accounts and his, and it would not solve the problem, because the debt crisis is systemic. By that I mean, the problem is the very nature of the SYSTEM the world's international financial systems, like the IMF and the World Bank (who are priority creditors) , use to calulate, manufacture and restructure debt. Unless that system changes, no amount of $$ will help, because it will all go down the debt drain.

3. The tax free thing would piss me off too. Just tell yourself Bono prolly makes up for it in private charity contributions.

Welcome to Interference!

Sherry Darlin

Okay, I'll tell myself that.

Anyway, yeah, well, that is the issue. It is a systemic problem and therefore the change has to come from within Africa itself, rather than hurtling money at it like Bono once said so passionately that we shouldn't do.

 

[BostonAnne]

Hi Soul Always!

Michael and Boston Anne (how ARE you girl??) have made some really good points. I'd add a couple more.


Sherry Darlin

Hi Sherry! I'm doing well, how about you? Also, do you feel any progress is boing made since you joined the Drop the Debt campaign? How long ago was that anyway? Last Spring or sooner?

 

[BostonAnne]

Okay, I'll tell myself that.

Anyway, yeah, well, that is the issue. It is a systemic problem and therefore the change has to come from within Africa itself, rather than hurtling money at it like Bono once said so passionately that we shouldn't do.

Bono is still passionate that we don't hurtle money at the problems. Ultimately, Africa will have to change within itself. What Bono is trying to do is to give it a great leap to self sufficiency to countries that have proven that they will be accountable in receiving the help. By pushing governments to drop the debt to the poorest countries and by setting up fairer trade rules, it will allow Africa to learn to take care of itself in the 21st century. By helping AIDS victims to receive medicine and to assist in educating people in protecting themselves from AIDS, we could be saving thousands of lives. One of Bono's points in his speech last week was that if you really believe in equality, really believe in it, then you would not allow another human being to die when there is something you can do about it. Perhaps all of our help will be to no avail - but do we really stand by and make no action at all in that assumption?

Good things are coming from the assistance that Africa has received. Did you see this thread?

http://forum.interference.com/t84400.html

 

[BostonAnne]

Soul Always,

I'm curious - did you hear Bono's speech?

Thanks,

BostonAnne

 

[Soul Always]

Bono is still passionate that we don't hurtle money at the problems. Ultimately, Africa will have to change within itself. What Bono is trying to do is to give it a great leap to self sufficiency to countries that have proven that they will be accountable in receiving the help. By pushing governments to drop the debt to the poorest countries and by setting up fairer trade rules, it will allow Africa to learn to take care of itself in the 21st century. By helping AIDS victims to receive medicine and to assist in educating people in protecting themselves from AIDS, we could be saving thousands of lives. One of Bono's points in his speech last week was that if you really believe in equality, really believe in it, then you would not allow another human being to die when there is something you can do about it. Perhaps all of our help will be to no avail - but do we really stand by and make no action at all in that assumption?

Good things are coming from the assistance that Africa has received. Did you see this thread?

http://forum.interference.com/t84400.html

I totally agree with Bono about equality. I have been called a "true egalitarian." So, I'm right there with him on that. However, because I do believe in equality I can't help but feel I'd be rather one-sided if I supported giving all the money we can to Africa alone when I see homeless people on our own streets that are dying every day as well. So, I am just thinking in that egalitarian mindset. Sure, I don't want to sit by and watch Africans die. I just feel there are issues that have quite a bit of weight as well in our own societies and I can't sit by there, as well.

I didn't see that thread and I'll have to read it. Thank you! That is great that Africa is benefiting by what has been done so far! That really makes me feel good! I certainly do applaud it and want more! I certainly don't want to take away or impede the progress that is being made there!!! I just can't lose sight of homeless people here even as I support Africa. I'm just kind of being moderate I guess because I know money isn't in endless supply and there is more than ONE mouth to feed.

Bono tends to focus, tunnel-vision, on just one thing. That's not bad, because he IS the very voice of the movement there, but I tend to feel it's my duty to speak up for the other voices who might go unheard. Balance. There is more than one issue at stake.

Bono goes off-kilter!!! There is more than one issue at stake in this world!

 

[Michael Griffiths]

Soul Always - That's just it, though. Bono isn't asking us to side with only one issue. The governments of 1st world countries have an entire multitude of issues to deal with - some domestic, some international. One just happens to be Africa. Another happens to be homelessness at home. And there are many others, too. Bono has spent his entire career battling all kinds of issues. That's why he's championed organizations such as War Child and Amnesty International... and even Green Peace to some extent, not to mention many others. This issue is the one he's focussing on right now only because it is that big. I wouldn't call it tunnel vision. I'd call it ratio efficiency. He's still involved with the other afformentioned organizations, as well. The African issue, alone, is a multitude of several issues, we must not forget. The drop the debt campaign is only one part of it, as we have seen. This is the biggest emergency of the 20th and 21st Centuries in terms of overall numbers dying per day, per month, per year, and per decade. Bono is only treating it as such.

Like I said, support for this cause doesn't equate to not supporting other causes.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

Exactly, MichaelGriffiths.

I'm sure Bono would fully support us doing what we could to help people in our own country, too. Heck, in the 80s, I read about how Bono was part of a thing in Ireland to help out the unemployed. So he's definitely for everyone taking care of their countries, too.

It's just that if we can manage to help both ourselves and others at the same time, great. .

Sherry and BostonAnne made some good points, too.

Angela

 

[Michael Griffiths]

Oh, if you didn't see the speech, here it is. I've provided two links in case one of them times out or something.

For this first one, you'll see a link just to the right of the news story, half way down the page, under "Related Video" - Bono issues a challenge to Paul Martin..." (You have to wait 40 seconds or so for it to connect.)
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/1068842746991_64251946//?hub=Specials#

(In Windows Media)
http://www.pulse24.com/In_The_Raw/Raw_Video/20031114-001/Video-5-2.asx

 

[Michael Griffiths]

Exactly, MichaelGriffiths.

I'm sure Bono would fully support us doing what we could to help people in our own country, too. Heck, in the 80s, I read about how Bono was part of a thing in Ireland to help out the unemployed. So he's definitely for everyone taking care of their countries, too.

It's just that if we can manage to help both ourselves and others at the same time, great. .

Sherry and BostonAnne made some good points, too.

Angela

Yes, good points, Angela - I don't think this world could run very well if we (as a collective) only concentrated on one thing at a time!

 

[BostonAnne]

I totally agree with Bono about equality. I have been called a "true egalitarian." So, I'm right there with him on that. However, because I do believe in equality I can't help but feel I'd be rather one-sided if I supported giving all the money we can to Africa alone when I see homeless people on our own streets that are dying every day as well. So, I am just thinking in that egalitarian mindset. Sure, I don't want to sit by and watch Africans die. I just feel there are issues that have quite a bit of weight as well in our own societies and I can't sit by there, as well.

I didn't see that thread and I'll have to read it. Thank you! That is great that Africa is benefiting by what has been done so far! That really makes me feel good! I certainly do applaud it and want more! I certainly don't want to take away or impede the progress that is being made there!!! I just can't lose sight of homeless people here even as I support Africa. I'm just kind of being moderate I guess because I know money isn't in endless supply and there is more than ONE mouth to feed.

Bono tends to focus, tunnel-vision, on just one thing. That's not bad, because he IS the very voice of the movement there, but I tend to feel it's my duty to speak up for the other voices who might go unheard. Balance. There is more than one issue at stake.

Bono goes off-kilter!!! There is more than one issue at stake in this world!

"true egalitarian" - what a nice title! You are cool Soul Always!

I would only suggest that if you support helping Africa it doesn't mean you don't support the homeless in your country. Africa shouldn't be neglected because of the homeless in your country and vice versa. Please support both and help all!

I also want to point out that America has an infrastructure to take care of the homeless. In the feeding area alone - My church cooks and serves for a soup kitchen monthly and our community is constantly running drives for the food pantry - whether it is through the church, boy or girl scouts, the schools, clubs. In the summer there are programs to plant vegetables for the hungry. This is just part of the picture of the generosity of people. There isn't a large percentage of Africans to go to bat for their homeless since most of them ARE the homeless.

Perhaps Bono is on to something - where he is pushing people to start having their voices heard in government. Not just vote our politicians in - but to direct them to what we really want all of the time. Maybe then money won't be lost on "pork" items that should be cut and better used for things that matter - a better society for all.

 

[kobayashi]

DATA responds to the corrupt past issue, and Bono also did in his recent speech in Canada.

im not disputing whether they address the issue at all. im aware that they do-i was lucky enough to be in the audience during bonos speech.

in terms of a developing nation over the long term, governmental stability is the greatest asset.

having said that, treatments for AIDS and debt relief are definitely the foremost issues at the moment.

 

[BostonAnne]

im not disputing whether they address the issue at all. im aware that they do-i was lucky enough to be in the audience during bonos speech.

in terms of a developing nation over the long term, governmental stability is the greatest asset.

having said that, treatments for AIDS and debt relief are definitely the foremost issues at the moment.

I just reread your post, and I obviously mis read the part about DATA. Sorry about that.

That is so cool that you were in the audience!

 

[Sherry Darling]

Hi Sherry! I'm doing well, how about you? Also, do you feel any progress is boing made since you joined the Drop the Debt campaign? How long ago was that anyway? Last Spring or sooner?

Hi there! Yes, it was last spring. I do think progress is being made, yeah! South Africa is now starting a gov't program to get antiretrovirals to their AIDS patients. SA is a real powerhouse in Africa and other nations are likely to follow their lead IF they can get the debt cancellation they need to do it. SA is also the richest country in that region, so its easier. I'm also psyched about teh WTO walkout. It could backfire, yes, but it could also be the start of the world's developing nations getting together collectively in a powerful way to demand fair trade. Glaciers are slow but they're unstoppable.

Glad to hear you're doing well!

SD

 

[U2luv]

Okay...this is all great! But, I still have one bee in my bonnet! What about the homeless people around here? Is their plight any less pitiful than those people in Africa? If I were homeless I'd feel like it was so. Why not give that tax money to help end homelessness in America? If they did that...if I saw they were making efforts and waves there, then I think I'd be more friendly toward the notion of giving some away to Africa, as well. I just think that you can't ignore one completely while giving to another.

There is very little focus being placed on the plight of homeless people in America (or Ireland). Maybe Bono should mention that, too, and then I'd feel better. Speak up for those people, as well. Bono is choosing one problem, but there are so many others. It's all rather one-sided. I won't forget the homeless people I see on the streets every day.

I guess, ultimately, my crusade is different from his.

Then take that crusade!! Soul Always, We may be discussing Bono's AIDS and Drop the Debt work in this thread, but even he's said all along that it's not who you help or how, it's the idea of getting off the rear and helping. If you want to help the homeless and the poor in your neighborhood, that's perfect. The idea is to do SOMETHING to help. There is plenty of need there too.

 

[Soul Always]

"true egalitarian" - what a nice title! You are cool Soul Always!

I would only suggest that if you support helping Africa it doesn't mean you don't support the homeless in your country. Africa shouldn't be neglected because of the homeless in your country and vice versa. Please support both and help all!

I also want to point out that America has an infrastructure to take care of the homeless. In the feeding area alone - My church cooks and serves for a soup kitchen monthly and our community is constantly running drives for the food pantry - whether it is through the church, boy or girl scouts, the schools, clubs. In the summer there are programs to plant vegetables for the hungry. This is just part of the picture of the generosity of people. There isn't a large percentage of Africans to go to bat for their homeless since most of them ARE the homeless.

Perhaps Bono is on to something - where he is pushing people to start having their voices heard in government. Not just vote our politicians in - but to direct them to what we really want all of the time. Maybe then money won't be lost on "pork" items that should be cut and better used for things that matter - a better society for all.

Thanks. I also think it's a cool title to have because I want people to see that. If they don't then I'm obviously not a true egalitarian.

I think Bono is right to show an example of standing up to government and expecting to be heard in government. One guy, all by himself, is able to do this. It's a stark contrast to hundreds of thousands of people cramming the streets in protest, never even getting close to the people they are trying to persuade, so that they can talk with them. I think a lot of people feel that they are powerless and frankly, I see protesting as a sign of someone who doesn't think they have a lot of personal power.

I agree that I think he's setting a very good precedent. I think it's great that he just marches right into untouchable presidents' offices and gets heard. I think he is showing an example of personal power, showing that presidents, etc., are just human and we are equal and have the right to be heard.

Well, you won't see me pulling Bono down. I just tend to like to balance things out.

 

[Soul Always]

Then take that crusade!! Soul Always, We may be discussing Bono's AIDS and Drop the Debt work in this thread, but even he's said all along that it's not who you help or how, it's the idea of getting off the rear and helping. If you want to help the homeless and the poor in your neighborhood, that's perfect. The idea is to do SOMETHING to help. There is plenty of need there too.

The thing that's kind of funny is that I'm such a "true egalitarian" that I don't exclusively focus on homeless people. I just want to make sure they are heard. I think there are the people who see the big picture and then there are the worker bees. I tend to be the one who designs the plans and someone like Bono is the one who implements it. Funny, my husband is the same way (as Bono). They are both the worker bee types.

 

[Michael Griffiths]

One of the most revealing things (and there were a lot of them) Bono said during the Much Music interview on Wednesday has to do with the reason he cannot speak out on certain political issues anymore: He has to "gag" himself - because, now, he's no longer representing himself. Now, he's representing the poorest people on Earth who do not have a voice in the G8. And he doesn't want to jeopardize that voice. People are now relying on him.

After hearing this, all of Bono's actions and inactions (not being too vocal about the Iraq situation, etc), suddenly made a lot more sense. He's simply trying to give people who have no voice a voice. And it's a responsibility he is very careful to uphold.

I don't know what that means to everyone, or why I had to state it, but I think it's interesting and somehow relavent to the overall discussion here.

 

[Soul Always]

One of the most revealing things (and there were a lot of them) Bono said during the Much Music interview on Wednesday has to do with the reason he cannot speak out on certain political issues anymore: He has to "gag" himself - because, now, he's no longer representing himself. Now, he's representing the poorest people on Earth who do not have a voice in the G8. And he doesn't want to jeopardize that voice. People are now relying on him.

After hearing this, all of Bono's actions and inactions (not being too vocal about the Iraq situation, etc), suddenly made a lot more sense. He's simply trying to give people who have no voice a voice. And it's a responsibility he is very careful to uphold.

I don't know what that means to everyone, or why I had to state it, but I think it's interesting and somehow relavent to the overall discussion here.

Yes! That is exactly what I've said about Bono. That he has said something like "I believe President Bush is sincere. I believe he's sincerely wrong, but that's he's sincere." He isn't going to come right out and say he doesn't believe in what they're doing in Iraq because he can't afford to offend Bush or the American people or anyone else. Now, he is a voice for people who have no voice.

Interesting. Well, I understand how responsible he feels, and that he feels he has to be very careful because people are relying on him and he can't mess up the voice HE has.

Everything I hear about Bono, I like him more and more. Everything I hear about him makes me feel more "one" with him. They guy is a person after my own heart

 

[Popmartijn]

i dont think its as simple as Africans remembering to take their medicine. i will not claim to be knowledgable on the subject, but significant provisional infrastructure needs to be in place: education, facilities, medical professionals and equipment.
i think that is what the author is referring to.

Then again, Bono tackled this argument a long time ago (1, 2 years?) when he said something like: When it is possible to get a can of cold Coca Cola in the middle of Ethiopia, then it certainly is possible to have an infrastructure to get medicines to the same area. (This in response to a statement by a US official that Africans cannot look up what time it is to get their medicine on time)

C ya!

Marty

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

Yes! That is exactly what I've said about Bono. That he has said something like "I believe President Bush is sincere. I believe he's sincerely wrong, but that's he's sincere." He isn't going to come right out and say he doesn't believe in what they're doing in Iraq because he can't afford to offend Bush or the American people or anyone else. Now, he is a voice for people who have no voice.

Interesting. Well, I understand how responsible he feels, and that he feels he has to be very careful because people are relying on him and he can't mess up the voice HE has.

Everything I hear about Bono, I like him more and more. Everything I hear about him makes me feel more "one" with him. They guy is a person after my own heart

Yep. Exactly. Ditto you and Michael's posts. That definitely makes a lot of sense.

Bono's just awesome. Seriously. My respect and admiration for him knows no boundaries.

Angela

 

[adamswildhoney]

Criticizing Bono, or any other socially/politically active famous person, begs the question: would we rather they stay in their mansions and spend their money and not give a shit? I mean, maybe their knowledge of the issue isn't as thorough or it puts a famous/pretty face on the issue, but think of how much attention Bono has garnered for the cause of AIDS in Africa and Third World debt relief. That's a good thing, and he didn't HAVE to do it.

yep I agree!

I dont think Bono would be doing this just for the hell of it. I think he knows his facts and knows what he trying to get across to everyone.

 

[Seabird]

Bono brings it publicity, he's helping, let him be!

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

Exactly.

And it's particularly good in the sense that through that publicity, this message is getting out to the people of my generation, too. For instance, tonight on MTV they had their "Fight For Your Rights" thing on the social history of HIV, and Bono was on there (it'll be on again throughout the weekend for those who want to check it out), and then there was the "Diary" show last year they had on there...that's good. Since we're the next group of people to step up to the plate, if we can learn about this stuff now, hopefully we'll run with it and work to change things the further on we go in life.

Young people can read statistics and be shocked and everything, but when they see pictures of, hear stories from, and meet people their own age with this disease, which is what these MTV specials shows, that really hits home.

And we have people like Bono and Ashley Judd and all the other great celebrities who've gotten involved with this issue to thank for that.

Angela