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Old 11-10-2004, 10:48 AM   #1
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a conservative america in the context of global society and culture

so the american people have democratically selected republican representation in both the executive and legislative houses. soon enough, by many accounts, it seems the judiciary branch will tip toward similarly conservative perspectives.

while we are all aware of the war on terror and its associated offspring, what of the cultural implications for america?

what of the cultural implications for an america amidst many other developed nations who exhibit much more liberal ideologies?

to provide an example, consider a story from todays globe and mail (sorry i cant provide a direct link)
Quote:
They're calling it the gay drain. Hundreds of well-heeled gay and lesbian lawyers, professors, educators and film directors from the U.S. are immigrating to Canada, drawn by the country's recognition of same-sex rights, unions and benefits.
...
While some gay Americans applied to immigrate before the Nov.
2 election, the results only reinforced their determination
to leave. Mr. Bush has again indicated he would support a constitutional
amendment banning same-sex marriage. Eleven states, including
Ohio, Michigan and Oregon, voted overwhelmingly to ban gay marriage,
in balloting held at the same time as the election. Ohio also
banned civil unions.
...
Tim Sally, a 47-year-old real-estate investor from the gay-friendly
city of San Francisco, said he is tired of living in a country
that won't accord him the same rights as heterosexuals. He worries
that the U.S. conservative political discourse has no place
for gay liberals, even wealthy and talented ones, who no longer
feel welcome in their own country.
now i dont mean to propose that these 'hundreds' of gay americans considering a move to canada will represent a serious impact to america. but what if this happens for various small groups, disenfranchised by the conservativism we expect to see in the next few years?

i would suggest, at the very least, that tolerance of homosexuals will not progress and may even be harmed in america.

taken further, new norms may be established in terms of personal privacy, the importance of religion (namely christianity), education (particularly post secondary), tolerance of alternative global views and a host of others.

depending on your perspective, these new norms might be better or worse than the traditional. but, it seems apparent to me that these same norms might paint america on a cultural island relative to the rest of the developed world.
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Old 11-10-2004, 11:36 AM   #2
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Gay marriage is asking for another 9/11 because it should never be an issue that represents our country. It's unnatural, God didn't design men for men and vise versa.
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Old 11-10-2004, 11:44 AM   #3
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I can understand the concern that these folks have, but I think they're being a bit hasty. Congress tried to pass the DMA a few months ago, and got nowhere. If it can't even get outside of Congress, it's not going to pass 75% of the states. There are real issues affecting gay folks, but the DMA is not one of them.

Secondly, I think post-election analysis has rather conclusively shown that "values" did not play as large a role as originally thought. The GOP is in for quite a rude surprise if they overreach with the hellfire and brimstone. Their position is somewhat precarious already; as much as they like to present this win as a crushing defeat of all things Democratic, the winning margin was only 3%. And Dems have made great strides at the local level in several red states in the last few years, like VA, NC, CO, and MT(!), and swing states like MN, NM and NH.

Imagine, just a year ago everyone thought Howard Dean was nuts for supporting civil unions. But yet, just a week before the election, the "family values" President found it necessary to announce his support for them, too. Full rights for gays and lesbians are inevitable in this country, and I don't think it will take that long for it to happen.
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Old 11-10-2004, 12:04 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Gay marriage is asking for another 9/11 because it should never be an issue that represents our country. It's unnatural, God didn't design men for men and vise versa.
Is this the Jerry Falwell approach? 9/11 happened because of gays, pro-choice activists and anyone who's not a Christian fundamentalist?



BTW, homophobia (ie gay people are 'unnatural') isn't welcome here, as I'm sure you'll soon find out.
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Old 11-10-2004, 12:14 PM   #5
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Gay marriage is asking for another 9/11 because it should never be an issue that represents our country. It's unnatural, God didn't design men for men and vise versa.
So did God screw up?

What in the world would bring you to the conclusion that 9/11 is even remotely related to 9/11?
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Old 11-10-2004, 12:29 PM   #6
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Re: a conservative america in the context of global society and culture

Quote:
Originally posted by kobayashi

to provide an example, consider a story from todays globe and mail (sorry i cant provide a direct link)

What was the title of the article?
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Old 11-10-2004, 12:35 PM   #7
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the title of the article is...
Quote:
Dispirited U.S. gays choosing Canada
i grabbed it off my corporate intranet-we get text versions of several major dailies.
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Old 11-10-2004, 12:43 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Gay marriage is asking for another 9/11 because it should never be an issue that represents our country. It's unnatural, God didn't design men for men and vise versa.
please don't insult the memory of those who died on 9/11 with more of this drivel. stupidly blaming one segment of the population for the problems of a nation only leads to bad things... just ask germany.

-sincerly,
republican catholic who voted for bush.



i for one support gay marrage/civil union... whatever you wanna call it. but i understand that many people in the US don't. frankly, i think that the acts of those in san francisco.. the "we know you're not gonna like it but we're gonna get married anyway so deal with it" crowd actually hurt their cause rather than help it... because, frankly, many people did deal with it... to the point where gay marrage is now officially banned in 22% of the nation.
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Old 11-10-2004, 12:47 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by kobayashi
the title of the article is...


i grabbed it off my corporate intranet-we get text versions of several major dailies.
Thank you
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Old 11-10-2004, 01:09 PM   #10
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In the wake of the US election there have been a bunch of articles about "how to deal with such a conservative America" in a couple of the newspapers here (Australia) and they've been really interesting. One good one basically described the US in general as the least 'foreign' nation in the world, due to the reach of US culture (film, music, tv, brands etc), however the conservative/right/republican side of the US is definitely very 'foreign' to most of the rest of the world - can't understand that thinking, culture etc.

Most of the world previously had just put it down to a small group in power, in the media and on the ground who had a much larger influence than their beliefs, but the election showed that, well, it's 52% of the country and the US is now looking like quite the different beast, and guessing the US' moves and motives now requires completely different thinking.

It's all very interesting.
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Old 11-10-2004, 01:26 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox


So did God screw up?



sd
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Old 11-10-2004, 01:34 PM   #12
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Actually, Diamond has just given me an example in another thread, the one about the possible new US Attorney General. It describes a guy who appears to be one conservative, cold blooded mofo that Bush may be putting into the position. Now, pre US election 'the world' would read about that and say "well what would you expect from the Bush Admin, they're backwards conservatives etc" but NOW post election, you have a comment like Diamonds in that thread ("i dont understand why the Dems reject the will of the ppl.") and that's what the world is trying to understand. It does appear to be the will of the (slight) majority of Americans. It's a whole other entity, and it will greatly, greatly influence the world over the next four years.
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Old 11-10-2004, 02:20 PM   #13
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I'm an artist and I'm wondering about some of the implications for us. Maybe it's far-fetched, but I don't know. What about politically themed art? What about possible censorship controversies? My avatar is faintly politically themed. It's a protest against the terrorist horrors in Istanbul last year. I'm fascinated with Istanbul and it really hurt when it was bombed. I did the painting in four days, which is unusually fast for an acrylic painting for me. Most of my art is more fantasy themed and avoids controversy, because I naturally am not all that fond of controversy. I don't expect to be impacted personally but I wonder about art in the U.S. and what's going to happen in general.
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Old 11-14-2004, 12:19 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Headache in a Suitcase


please don't insult the memory of those who died on 9/11 with more of this drivel. stupidly blaming one segment of the population for the problems of a nation only leads to bad things... just ask germany.

-sincerly,
republican catholic who voted for bush.
I would never mean anything to insult 9/11 victims, war victims, etc... My point was that for some reason, terrorists find the USA to be a godless society, and unfortunately, all they see in this country is how we demoralize our women with hip hop culture, flaunt the worst of us on reality TV, and elsewhere. We should make an effort to prevent them from being so angry at us, and I've always found that our culture strikes a chord with them.
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Old 11-14-2004, 12:22 PM   #15
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Yes, but stating outright that allowing gay unions/marriage would cause another 9/11 is, if not deliberate fearmongering, a wee bit irresponsible at best.
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