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Old 11-15-2004, 11:57 AM   #106
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and, on a side note, in relation to the gay-teens-and-suicide thing, U2 had a lot to do with me surviving my adolescence as a deeply closeted gay teen. it may sound melodramatic, but for professed Christians to write a song like "one" ... you can't imagine how much it meant to me. and millions others.
Dude, that is awesome. Amen to that, and to the love delivered by U2 to you.

Mark
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Old 11-15-2004, 11:58 AM   #107
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Originally posted by MadelynIris


No contradition. I'm having a hard time understanding why you don't understand what I'm saying.

No problem with gay people. I just don't uphold homosexuality as right. There are other things I don't uphold as right either.... like Amway.

because it's inconsistent. like saying, "no problems with left-handers, i just don't like their handwriting."
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Old 11-15-2004, 12:01 PM   #108
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When I'm thinking about morality, I think about what and/or who exactly is harmed by a behavior pattern. It's easy to see how murder and violence cause harm. Homosexuality is a different matter. I mean, heck, every time I feel a hateful emotion I'm committing a sin. We Catholics have the sacrament of reconciliation--better known as confession--for a reason. I just don't object to homosexuality as much as I do other more blatantly damaging forms of behavior.
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Old 11-15-2004, 12:10 PM   #109
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because it's inconsistent. like saying, "no problems with left-handers, i just don't like their handwriting."
No. It's more like, no problem with adulterers as people (I'd have dinner with them, hang out, drink some beer etc...) but if the issue came up that required my endorsement of their lifestyle, I would not, and I would let them know that I think it's wrong.



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Old 11-15-2004, 01:02 PM   #110
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Originally posted by MadelynIris


No. It's more like, no problem with adulterers as people (I'd have dinner with them, hang out, drink some beer etc...) but if the issue came up that required my endorsement of their lifestyle, I would not, and I would let them know that I think it's wrong.

Mark

ah, but there's a victim with adultery. this is why i would never get involved with a married man -- and, believe me, there are *many* married men who want to experiment with another male -- because someone is getting hurt, and you're enabling someone to break their vows.

who is hurt when two men, or two women, date each other?

instead of stating what you believe, can you tell me why you *think* homosexuality is wrong?
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Old 11-15-2004, 01:20 PM   #111
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Originally posted by MadelynIris


No. It's more like, no problem with adulterers as people (I'd have dinner with them, hang out, drink some beer etc...) but if the issue came up that required my endorsement of their lifestyle, I would not, and I would let them know that I think it's wrong.



Mark

Yes, and ignorant people had laws against adultry on the books and enfonced them.

Thank god, that is no longer the case in rational countries.

There are many behaviors and personal choices I believe are wrong.
I do not need ALL my beliefs codified in law to validate them for myself.
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Old 11-15-2004, 01:24 PM   #112
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ah, but there's a victim with adultery.
ahhh.. but is there a victim in adultery? No one is getting hurt are they?
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Old 11-15-2004, 01:30 PM   #113
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ahhh.. but is there a victim in adultery? No one is getting hurt are they?

if the spouse finds out, yes, there's a clear victim with an institution (marriage) at stake. there's deception, lying, etc.
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Old 11-15-2004, 01:32 PM   #114
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I don't believe there should be any laws banning gay marriage or changing the current definition of marriage.

No laws.
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Old 11-15-2004, 01:34 PM   #115
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can you answer my questions:

1. why do you *think* homosexuality is wrong
2. who is hurt by a homosexual relationship
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Old 11-15-2004, 01:54 PM   #116
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Originally posted by Irvine511
can you answer my questions:

1. why do you *think* homosexuality is wrong
2. who is hurt by a homosexual relationship
i'm curious too. I don't want to try and change your mind and I hope you don't present your answer in a way trying to chane mine, let's just put our beliefs, (if you don't mind), on the table.
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Old 11-15-2004, 01:57 PM   #117
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I am totally and completely 100% FOR gay rights.

In my experience I've found that people who think homosexuality is wrong think so because they don't know it. People fear/turn away from what they don't know. I know that's a very oversimplified way of putting it, but I believe if you strip away all the political/religious stuff that goes with it, and all of the other stuff that goes with it, that that is what the root of it is.
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Old 11-15-2004, 02:03 PM   #118
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Originally posted by namkcuR
I am totally and completely 100% FOR gay rights.

In my experience I've found that people who think homosexuality is wrong think so because they don't know it. People fear/turn away from what they don't know. I know that's a very oversimplified way of putting it, but I believe if you strip away all the political/religious stuff that goes with it, and all of the other stuff that goes with it, that that is what the root of it is.
Amen!
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Old 11-15-2004, 02:22 PM   #119
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In my experience I've found that people who think homosexuality is wrong think so because they don't know it. People fear/turn away from what they don't know. I know that's a very oversimplified way of putting it, but I believe if you strip away all the political/religious stuff that goes with it, and all of the other stuff that goes with it, that that is what the root of it is.
I don't fear it or turn away from it because I don't know it. Like I said in previous emails, I have gay friends, relatives, family friends. I hang out with them, have a relationship with them etc...


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but I believe if you strip away all the political/religious stuff that goes with it, and all of the other stuff that goes with it, that that is what the root of it is.
Of course that's the root of it. Political/religious beliefs are very strong in people. At least, my spiritual beliefs are. I believe in the NT, and I believe in Paul's writings. I think he put it all together, and I believe it.

So you are going to prod me to deliver a reason why I believe something, but do not use the foundation/framework of the Bible to do it. Does that make sense to ask someone who cherishes it so, and believes it? I am a Christ follower, and hence that is what I believe. Many others out there claim to be Christ followers, but use a self made system, derived from parts of the bible, or otherwise, to base their christian beliefs. I personally find these scriptures to be clear about certain sins.

I still find it amazing, that with all that I've written in this thread, many of you still consider me to be homophobic and intolerant.

It's love baby, love for you all. But is anyone here prepared to yield to me, that one can believe the way I do, and not be labeled homophobic or intolerant?

I've seen others get banned for similar beliefs. Maybe they didn't defend with as many words as I did.

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Old 11-15-2004, 02:29 PM   #120
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I don't believe people were banned just for those beliefs, there was probably more to it.


Anyway no I don't think you're homophobic for disagreeing with the lifestyle. You said so yourself that you don't want to ban gay marriage (I think it was you). That's not in the least bit homophobic. I understand where you're coming from, and i respectfully disagree.
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