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Old 01-31-2006, 07:04 PM   #16
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Oh, dear God. Rendell. He's my governor. The governor who thinks slots are the answers to PA's financial problems and thought a really good budget cut was libraries, who signed off on a midnight raid by the state legislature to raise their salaries in the dark of the night (PS, voter revolt repealed the legislation, took down a sitting judge and caused several long term legislators to resign to spend more time with their families. Poor girl.
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Old 01-31-2006, 07:31 PM   #17
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As I said, I'm not too thrilled about seeing Rendell speak, he doesn't impress me much

Kaine has surprisingly impressed me...when I first met him several years ago I was really impressed about how he was one on one, but was skeptical about what he would have to offer. He continually steps up and puts smart plans on the table, which is what he's doing now as governor. He's gotten off to a great start, I hope he can keep it up the next 4 years
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Old 01-31-2006, 07:46 PM   #18
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Ah yes...Virginia. I find whatever its politicans say to be overshadowed by its virulent homophobia. I see Virginia now has its eyes on banning gay-straight alliances in high schools, in addition to Kaine lending his support to banning same-sex marriage (while nitpicking on the details of how to ban it).

Well, it's not as if I'm not used to bigotry from supposed American "liberals." Maybe the best way of all would be for the Democratic Party to disband and make room for an actual opposition party in this country. I'm not impressed with them so far.

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Old 01-31-2006, 07:50 PM   #19
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That is one area where I disagree with him...the ban on gay marriage...and I'm going to let him know that. Melon-I plan to fight the amendment as much as possible. The key will be to drive out the youth vote, they're more likely to go out and vote on an issue as opposed to a candidate. We'll see how it goes in November.
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Old 01-31-2006, 08:03 PM   #20
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Democrats have been stupid for so long that its not even funny. These "morality crusades" for the last 30 years have always been about diverting attention away from the failures of politicians. Anytime I see another resumption of the "flag burning amendment" debate, I know they're avoiding something. And goddamn...I wanted to smack Hillary Clinton for falling for it recently.

I know exactly what the Democrats are thinking: they regret ever having supported the civil rights movement in the 1950s and 60s. Sure, now it's a good thing to support since it's already 40 years too late, but they remember all the Southern Democrats who defected to the Republican Party as a result of it and all the elections they've lost since because of it. While I would have said, "Good riddance to you, Strom Thurmond," the Democrats have since been reluctant to support minority rights. But you know what they don't get through their thick skulls? The morality zealots are never going to vote Democratic. If they ever vote Democratic, it will be because they have an actual economic platform. The bigot vote will always vote Republican, and trying to appeal to that base will always end in defeat. When you're talking about people who believe that Hillary Clinton is a lesbian, despite being married to a man, you know you're not dealing with rational thinkers here. However, by trying to hug the center by being what I'd call "quasi-bigots," all they do is effectively make a lot of more liberal people not want to vote at all.

I will grudgingly vote in future elections, if only to continue my right to bitch, but I know a lot of people won't be as principled as I. All the fancy rhetoric in the world will be meaningless if you don't have the principles to back it up. And Kaine and Warner are fools if they think otherwise.

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Old 01-31-2006, 08:21 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon


I know exactly what the Democrats are thinking: they regret ever having supported the civil rights movement in the 1950s and 60s.
Melon


I absolutely cannot allow you to get away with this statement. I don't know what has made you so bitter but this is going way too far. I don't even know where to begin to respond...give me some time to collect my thoughts and I'll post.
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Old 01-31-2006, 08:29 PM   #22
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Originally posted by U2democrat


I absolutely cannot allow you to get away with this statement. I don't know what has made you so bitter but this is going way too far. I don't even know where to begin to respond...give me some time to collect my thoughts and I'll post.
Yes, I push the envelope and say what has been left unsaid. And, yes, they will publically support their actions during the 1960s, if only to save face and only because history has been on their side since. But they know that it has been a pyrrhic victory. Strom Thurmond, after he left the Democratic Party in 1964 and before his Republican conversion in favor of civil rights in the 1970s, did more to change the South's voting patterns than anyone else before him. Whether it is conscious or not, the Democratic Party has taken notice and is not courageous enough to take tough, but necessary stances anymore.

Anyway, regardless, if more Democrats were like you, I think I'd actually love the party again. So don't lose hope as I have. It would be a pity.

Melon
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Old 01-31-2006, 09:10 PM   #23
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What I don't like about Kaine or Warner for that matter is that to me, they're a bunch of the same ol' same ol'. They're like Democrats trying to look like Republicans so that God forbid they should offend. Why would any left-leaning person vote for them? Because they might be marginally less offensive than a Republican? No, sorry. Until the Democrats settle on a clear and strong agenda of their own, I wouldn't vote for them, even if I could. Get a spine, grow some balls, get your own policies, because as much as I may disagree with Ralph Nader, he's right in that the current Democratic leadership is exactly the same as the Reps except they take marching orders from different corporations. Very little progressive vision among them and what little there is, is stifled immediately so as to find some kind of watered down middle ground that is unoffensive, but sure as hell won't inspire people to vote either.
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Old 01-31-2006, 09:49 PM   #24
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Yes I agree with Anitram here.

If Kaine's ALREADY appealing to the 'moderate centre' what will he be like in 10 years?

They should have someone like John Conyers up there creating a bit of aggro.

The far right cabal that stole the 2000 and possibly the 2004 elections made NO attempt to appeal to the centre.

So why the hell should the opposition do it?
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Old 01-31-2006, 10:03 PM   #25
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The Dems should be absolutely hammering the Repubs on NUMEROUS issues - from the Iraq War to the Fitzgerald investigation to the corruption scandals, etc, etc.

This bullshit of 'let's all be nice Dems and appeal to the moderate centre' is just a cop out.
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Old 02-01-2006, 01:11 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2democrat




I absolutely cannot allow you to get away with this statement. I don't know what has made you so bitter but this is going way too far. I don't even know where to begin to respond...give me some time to collect my thoughts and I'll post.
It is not really fair to take the first part of the post out of context with the rest.



Melon is right, there are many working class folks, particularly in the South, that left the Dem Party over civil rights. The GOP call it their Southern Strategy.
It has given the GOP a leg up in Electoral votes and Senates races.
I understand what Kaine is trying to do.
Bring a few back into the fold.
But, Melon is right the GOP has a lock on the intolerant.
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Old 02-01-2006, 01:15 AM   #27
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But, Melon is right the GOP has a lock on the intolerant.
Funny how intolerance actually comes in different flavors. But you never taste your own.
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Old 02-01-2006, 01:18 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy
The Dems should be absolutely hammering the Repubs on NUMEROUS issues - from the Iraq War to the Fitzgerald investigation to the corruption scandals, etc, etc.

This bullshit of 'let's all be nice Dems and appeal to the moderate centre' is just a cop out.
I just finished listening to Kaine's response. It sounded like a challenger in a Republican primary.

The "better way" presented in the speech didn't go far. Too many non-sequetor responses to the problems posed.

How many people will be inspired by his call to service?
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Old 02-01-2006, 01:21 AM   #29
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NOT ME! I was pissed off! I liked some things he said, but it is what he didn't say that bothered me. They should absolutely be beating the shit out of bush and the republicans right now, but are too scared. They just can't stand up for themselves!!
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Old 02-01-2006, 01:30 AM   #30
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Being seen as the Party for Minorities does have its electoral downfalls. On the other hand, one could argue that the Republicans themselves have done a bang-up job of making what is, in fact, a minority agenda seem mainstream, so why can't the Democrats pull off the same.

Quote:
Originally posted by melon
If they ever vote Democratic, it will be because they have an actual economic platform.
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