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Old 04-14-2004, 09:42 AM   #16
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So because I believe something must be real to believe in I am narrow? Really, come up with something a little more in depth than that. I mean, is there something in your life that you believe in even if it is not real? If I were to say so, I am pretty sure I would get lambasted by most people. If something is just a figment of someone's imagination then it is worthless.

About Horus, I believe he was the son of Isis and Osiris. Isis was a goddess not a mortal and was the wife and sister of Osiris. Also, the statement that many early church fathers did not believe in a historical Jesus can easily be refuted by reading the writings of Tertullian, Origen, Clement, etc. As Melon said, this is more of a gnostic belief not something the majority of the church believed.
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Old 04-14-2004, 08:28 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pearl

How can the Egyptians say this deity was crucified when it was the Romans who invented crucifixion?
I'm pretty sure the Persians invented crucifixion.
There's also evidence that captured pirates were crucified in Athens around 700 BC.

It's unfortunate that this guy doesn't say when this Egyptian story originated... granted, their civilization is much older, but religions tales come and go. Just because they were around 3000 years before Christ doesn't mean this story was.
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Old 04-14-2004, 09:34 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kristie


I'm pretty sure the Persians invented crucifixion.
There's also evidence that captured pirates were crucified in Athens around 700 BC.

It's unfortunate that this guy doesn't say when this Egyptian story originated... granted, their civilization is much older, but religions tales come and go. Just because they were around 3000 years before Christ doesn't mean this story was.
The Persians did "invent" crucifixion. Nbcrusader posted a link to an article about crucifixion in "the Passion" thread written by a physician about the gory details. The Egyptian story is ancient, one of the oldest stories out there; it does go back to about 3000 B.C. The word "crucifixion" isn't specifically used about Osiris; he just went through some excruciating form of execution. The early Christians celebrated Christmas on December 25 because that was the day the Roman Mithraists celebrated the Birth of Sol Invictus, the Invincible Sun, a practice originally from Persia. The Church picked up several holidays from pagan traditions. They didn't so much "steal" them as simply adapt them for their purposes, and in some cases these were indeed political, IMHO.
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Old 04-14-2004, 09:57 PM   #19
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Hogwash. I firmly believe Jesus Christ did exist and was not some
pagan fairy tale. grrrrr! Ok.....I'm better now

This guy's theories are ridiculous. So, there are smiliarities
in religion. There's similarities in a lot of cultures with religion
and building techniques, etc.
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Old 04-15-2004, 07:24 PM   #20
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Originally posted by Ft. Worth Frog
So because I believe something must be real to believe in I am narrow?
But your belief in God/Jesus is narrow, by definition. Ignore the connotation that "narrow" is a negative word; I wrote that strictly in the academic sense.

Don't try and sugar-coat it. That's what it is. And so what? I certainly don't care either way.

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Old 04-15-2004, 07:28 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon


But your belief in God/Jesus is narrow, by definition. Ignore the connotation that "narrow" is a negative word; I wrote that strictly in the academic sense.

Don't try and sugar-coat it. That's what it is. And so what? I certainly don't care either way.

Melon

It is the same thing as calling Christians "intolerant" if they believe that Jesus is the only way.... academic, not negative.
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Old 04-15-2004, 07:38 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
It is the same thing as calling Christians "intolerant" if they believe that Jesus is the only way.... academic, not negative.


"Narrow," by definition, is having an inflexible or rigid view of something. In terms of Christianity, a narrow view of Christianity would be a fundamentalist view that refuses any alternative theories. Period. So be it. If you or anyone wish to view "narrow" as "negative," that's your problem.

If you view "narrow" as meaning "intolerant," that's your problem. That's not what I meant; that is an added connotation to the word, and a connotation that I did not imply.

So people have narrow view of Christianity? If the shoe fits, wear it proudly!

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Old 04-15-2004, 08:48 PM   #23
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It seams that every religion that believes they hold the truth could be painted as narrow.
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Old 04-15-2004, 08:49 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon
If you view "narrow" as meaning "intolerant," that's your problem. That's not what I meant; that is an added connotation to the word, and a connotation that I did not imply.

So people have narrow view of Christianity? If the shoe fits, wear it proudly!

Melon
The use of the related word "narrow-minded" creates a *semantical* problem with this....does that make any sense? Perhaps not; it's been a long day.
Whew!
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Old 04-16-2004, 12:54 PM   #25
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Originally posted by Dreadsox
It seams that every religion that believes they hold the truth could be painted as narrow.
I would only add the "absolute" truth.
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Old 04-16-2004, 05:16 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dreadsox
It seams that every religion that believes they hold the truth could be painted as narrow.
I think this is true. This would make a hell of alot of people "narrow"--not just Christians but people from other religious traditions as well. Jews, Moslems, Hindus, and Buddhists all believe they have "the truth" as well.
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Old 04-16-2004, 07:56 PM   #27
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Thanks for clearing that up melon I guess many people use the term with a negative connotation so I automatically assumed. We know what happens when you assume right!
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Old 04-16-2004, 10:17 PM   #28
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Originally posted by verte76
Jews, Moslems, Hindus, and Buddhists all believe they have "the truth" as well.
Actually, that's not exactly true. Eastern religions (Hinduism/Buddhism/Jainism/Sikhism, etc) have a different view of the truth than we do.

Hinduism, for example, has so many sectarian views and devotions to different Gods depending on the sect, that they don't believe they have "the truth" sect to sect. Also, it's generally been the religion to absorb the most outside sources, and after 3000 years of recorded history, some people even argue that Hinduism is a way of life, not a religion. Different Hindus devote themselves to different deities and therefore you can't claim they think they have the truth. As stated by Levinson, "Hinduism differs from Christianity and other Western religions in that it does not have a single founder, a specific theological system, a single system of morality, or a central religious organization. It consists of 'thousands of different religious groups that have evolved in India since 1500 BCE.'"They view Jesus as one of many great teachers.

When it comes to Sikhism, the founder, Guru Nanak continuously proclaimed the irrelevance of religious communities by saying things like "There is no Hindu, there is no Muslim."

The Jains do not even concentrate on devotion of a deity and their entire tradition is summed up by they saying "Ahimsa paramo dharma" which means "non-violence is the highest form of religious conduct." Everything in their life, from their diet, to career, to business is centred around the doctrine of non-violence. Furthermore, they believe that many spiritual leaders over the centures have become perfected beings.

In Buddhism, although you've had the split into Mahayana, Theravada and Vajrayana, remember that the Buddha never claimed to own the truth, in fact he argued that he found his way, but it is up to people to find their own way. Among the things he said are: "Work out your own salvation. Do not depend on others."; "Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings -- that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide." There is no personal God in Buddhism.

I think a lot of the times, we in the West who are followers of strict monotheisms tend to assume that every religion stakes a claim on the truth. There are simply different ways of looking at things, and many of the above mentioned groups (like Hindus) actually believe there are multiple paths to the same truth in the end; a view that Christianity/Judaism/Islam does not seem to share (permitting for some differences among sects, of course).
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Old 04-18-2004, 08:14 PM   #29
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Sounds like the guy in his 70's has lost touch with his risen saviour in his personal devotional life and is looking to get meaning and attention publicly while keeping his beliefs to make sure he gets to heaven (even if he doesn't believe that its not there either)!! Just some hot air really from a bored person.
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Old 04-19-2004, 01:30 AM   #30
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craig, that is incredibly ignorant if I must say so. (I use that word not in the insulting way, per sea. just saying it is an immature viewpoint)

I have also gona through a very tough time lately. and still am. I find it hard to be around conservative christians who have every thing mapped out for you. You go to hell if you drink you go to hell if you're gay.

simply put, bullshit.

I'm in a weird stage right now...I don't really know what I believe. But I don;'t take the Bible to be the be all end all and I don't think hell is as easy a place to get to as conservatives think.

arg...I won't even get into it. There are so many personal reasons too....I'm become a little cynical perhaps...critical...skeptical, even
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