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Old 09-09-2002, 09:48 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally posted by Arun V
I'm going to direct my attn to more productive matters....I suggest otehrs do the same....I'd liek to see this thread sink like a rock
I hear what you are saying Arun, but right now I just feel compelled to reply. I really can't even form coherent sentences right now because of the way I'm feeling about this thread, so I apologize for the poor quality of my post. And I know everyone has the right to his/her own opinion and to express it on here, but sometimes I really have to question the motives and if people even think twice about what they are posting.

I didn't read the whole thread,because I really don't want to-the original post set me off enough-but honestly, I am so upset by this. Because I grieve for what happened that day DOES NOT mean I grieve any less for any other tragedy around the world.

I have to be honest and say I KNEW there would be at least ONE thread on Interference like this. I guess the only 'redeeming' quality is that it wasn't actually posted on the 11th.

I don't know what else to say, except this makes me extremely sad. And yes-angry.

God Bless all the people we lost that day, and their friends and relatives.

There is a thread on Interference right now from a wonderful, brave girl who lost her boyfriend that day, and experienced it in a way that is beyond anything I can imagine. I will not post the link, because I don't have her permission to do so. I suggest that anyone who hasn't read it seek it out and read it. And then think if you would have the NERVE to tell her or any others who lost loved ones that day that it is 'overrated'.


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Old 09-09-2002, 09:59 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally posted by TripThruUreWires
Should any of your friends or family die such a horrific and unjust death, i sure hope others treat you with such disdain!
please don't say that. i agree that ravenstar really blew it with this thread and it made me angry - so angry i probably overreacted earlier. but we should never wish something so horrible on anyone. i don't want anyone to feel so terribly. the best thing to do is learn from other people's bad attitude and be the opposite.

i'm sorry. i just needed to say that.
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Old 09-09-2002, 10:46 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally posted by Screaming Flower


please don't say that. i agree that ravenstar really blew it with this thread and it made me angry - so angry i probably overreacted earlier. but we should never wish something so horrible on anyone. i don't want anyone to feel so terribly. the best thing to do is learn from other people's bad attitude and be the opposite.

i'm sorry. i just needed to say that.
you know, it's funny....i pretty much logged off from interference right after typing that post and got to thinking. i'm not one to usually subscribe to the idea of karma. in fact, i think the whole notion is a load of shit, thus i regret posting that last part. i suppose it was just a bit of a gut reaction. the only reason i came back on was to go and edit that post, but then stumbled upon this. unfortunately, it won't let me edit that last part out of my post, so i guess i have to leave it there. i apologise to ravenstar for making that single comment. i wouldn't wish his/her own attitude and irreverence on anyone in such a situation.
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Old 09-09-2002, 10:58 AM   #94
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sorry that i quoted you brooke. i shouldn't have done that either. i understand your reaction because i went off yesterday when i read this. sorry again.
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Old 09-09-2002, 11:00 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally posted by RavenStar
I can easily put my family, friend, etc in those buildings. It is still no reason to take something as tragic as that and shove in people's faces.
Sorry but I donīt believe you. I neither want to think of any of my relatives or soulmates or friends or whoever I know in this building.

I am interpreting your words very positively now if I say that maybe you meant your opinion is sth. like: If we care so much about that tragedy, where so many innocent lives were lost, why donīt we seem to care about other tragedies; why isnīt the Washington Post or the London Telegraph 600 sides long every day with the innocent victims of hunger or diseases in the world?

Well, this is a valid question to ask, but this doesnīt make the tragedy that happened in NYC less tragic. And look, RavenStar, you canīt compare pain with pain. You canīt say this death is less tragic than that death (except in very, very extreme cases). Instead, you have to take the ones that were hurt by the hand, to try to... I donīt know... to give them some power maybe?

Take a look at what you said. I think it is not very sensitive. And I think you lied: if anyone you love would have died in this tragedy, you would still be full of pain now... or what kind of person are you?

This is not about your opinion or another opinion, it is about feelings. And feelings never are exaggerated.
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Old 09-09-2002, 11:09 AM   #96
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Over here in the UK on tv last week, they had a prog on in which they had 're-constructed' close to how it might have been done and took real words from those interviewed who lost partner/friend/family etc on the flight (Im sorry, I've forgotten number of flight....), where those men went in and overpowered the highjackers in order for them not to hit their destination.....

For the pple who 're-constructed' those on that flight, it was hard to watch......watching them cry/panic/sayin 'goodbye, I dont know if I will see u again, but if not, I love you/tell the children I love them/ etc.......very hard to watch.......and esp when the REAL pple who lost those on that flight relived that moment and some broke down on camera....

it closed when it showed the point of the men entering the cockpit.

I did cry at the end of it all, those were very VERY brave men......
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Old 09-09-2002, 11:14 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally posted by RavenStar


I cannot give other Satanist a bad rep. Unlike other religions, we dont all conform to the herd and act like one another. One Satanists opinion can be the opposite from another Satanists opinion. Just because I think this way, doesnt mean someone else will.
Oh, so you are a Satanist?

Excuse me if I take a break to laugh my ass off! In my opinion, you are the most ridiculous people on this planet. You neither know who you are worshipping, but you kind of play around, who cares.

Believe me, I know. You are playing around with things you neither have caught a glimpse of, little boy - or girlie. I know your hero, and he is just around the corner, waiting, maybe for you? I donīt think you will like him though...

(btw, this is why to use the word "evil" is not appropriate for a state)
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Old 09-09-2002, 11:28 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally posted by RavenStar


Atleast the 3000 people that died got to live in one of the greatest countries in the world. Those people in Africa, they havent even had the chance to live how people in America get to live. I betchya most people in Africa would love to live for only 20 years in America (or any similar country) and then die. It is way better than dying of a disease you have had most (or all) of your life in a place where life is barely worth living without disease.
Only proves you donīt know shit about Africans.
Do a research, most Africans will never leave their home, because their tradition, religion, social connections, and their home is there. Maybe theyīd like to go on a holiday, for sure theyīd like more comfort, but not that many would go to live in the U.S.

And even worse: if you knew a little history, youīd know that the average life expectation for slaves in the country of the dishwashing millionaire was twenty years. So your remark seems more than a little cynical. I am sure they would have preferred to stay in Africa, too.
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Old 09-09-2002, 11:52 AM   #99
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I haven't read the whole thread either, but I thought I'd add my thoughts on this.

I wouldnt try and claim this wasnt a tragedy of the highest order, to say otherwise would be ridiculous. Also my deepest sympathies go to the families of those who were killed and to injured and my prayers with them.

But I've found the media coverage of the event extremely over the top and in places downright tasteless. On the day I couldnt bear to watch as time after time they showed the planes hitting...

And it hasnt got any better, between the attacks on 11/9 and the revenge sought in Afghanistan, for a whole year you cant get away from this.

I have to say if this happened in my country I wouldnt want such media coverage, especially as its likely to be 100 times worse in the country where it happened to anywhere else. And if one of my family members was killed I can honestly say I wouldnt want to see it on tv 24/7, I'd want some peace to mourn their death and then try and get on with life.

I realise a lot of you will consider me insensitive or anti-American or whatever, but I'll be avoiding all the documentaries, news items, newspaper articles. I'm not saying these events should be forgotten, they never will, we dont need constant reminders through every possible medium to remember.
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Old 09-09-2002, 12:52 PM   #100
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Quote:
Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars


Oh, so you are a Satanist?

Excuse me if I take a break to laugh my ass off! In my opinion, you are the most ridiculous people on this planet. You neither know who you are worshipping, but you kind of play around, who cares.

Believe me, I know. You are playing around with things you neither have caught a glimpse of, little boy - or girlie. I know your hero, and he is just around the corner, waiting, maybe for you? I donīt think you will like him though...

(btw, this is why to use the word "evil" is not appropriate for a state)
Satantists do not worship anyone, and that includes satan. From what I've read about Ravenstar in the past, I don't think she worships lucifer himself - to do so isn't in the teachings of Satanism. Basically Satanism was based on the "teachings" of anti-conformist Anton LeVey - who was little more than a shock prophet who chose the name of his bretheren for the sole purpose of shocking people, namely Christians. Later in life Anton LeVey, in his own way, denounced Satanism as nothing more than a whack-pseudo religion.

Nothing against Satanists who choose to follow the path of Anton LeVey, that's their own choice and they shouldn't be laughed at, - but if the leader himself denounces the bretheren he created and said in so many words, "I did it just to shock conformists" well... then...

*shrug*
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Old 09-09-2002, 01:11 PM   #101
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You know I rarely speak up, but I'm always lurkin.

And now is the time for me to post, before I head off to work.

I have read every post in this thread and sharky's really touched me. He's right, nobody knows the pain of what it's like to actually have seen the towers collapse, knowing there's people inside, firsthand. We all watched it on our television, and some of us tried to help where we could. But we'll never know. My condolences to sharky - I can't begin to imagine what horrors you've seen first hand, this year must have been so painful.

What gets me though, is the original post starting this thread. I know everyone and their grandmother has put in their 2 cents already, but I feel compelled to do so as well. I *think* I get what Ravenstar meant to say, but it came across all wrong. What was said was insensitive, callous, immature, and overall... a dumbass thing to say especially given that the year anniversary is so close. To trivialize the brutal loss of innocent lives in a cowardly attack by stating it was just "buildings and stuff" is deplorable. It's dusgusting. The lives lost that day - those people had fuck all to do with foreign policy!!! They were at work, probably wondering what they were going to have for dinner that night, or probably wondering if they were going to make it home in time to tuck their children into bed.

My first thought was why hasn't this thread been closed? Then I realized that people sometimes need to see the parade of idiocy that haunts this planet from time to time. The initial post in this thread is a perfect example of such idiocy. I'm not saying Ravenstar is an idiot - she seems quite levelheaded judging from what I've read in the past. But the initial statement and her statements thereafter, comparing the "lucky" lives of Americans to those "unlucky" souls in Africa... Jeezus. Words can't descibe the sheer idiocy being spewed. I'm still seething and I just got done reading all 7 pages worth. I can barely string a sentence together given my anger.

A formal apology from Ravenstar should be in order. If only to save face.
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Old 09-09-2002, 01:18 PM   #102
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note to all mods and elvis : people of age less than 16 shouldnt be allowed in FYM

or better still, an iq of more than 120-130 should be the qualification to post in FYM for a meaningful and logical debate.

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Old 09-09-2002, 01:43 PM   #103
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From my european point of view it's unbelievable to read a thread like this in a US based forum

From my personal point of view it just makes me sick. And very sad.

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Old 09-09-2002, 02:03 PM   #104
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Right;

First off, I think Raven Star is getting a lot of bad rap over something she didn't phrase too well (or, as some would say, rather appalingly, if perhaps callously).

From being called sub-human and sick to being intellectually impaired (incidentally, AcrobatMan, if we did follow your recommendations, FYM would be a very quiet place) and to even having someone calling her religion as 'ridiculous'. Now, that really isn't neccessary, is it? Raven Star has been very careful and logical in her explanations of her beliefs in the past, in fact one of the best threads I've ever read was the one where she described Satanism in clear and concise DETAIL.

If you missed it, what a pity, you would have realised that calling a person's religion ridiculous, no matter how obscure and esoteric it is to you, is not to be done lightly. No matter how distasteful you may find this thread, there are no grounds to start naming a person's religion or the people who practice it as 'ridiculous'. I find this comment as distasteful as the other ones accused of being such.

Back to the thread...

Yes, the phrasing could have been a lot better, however, I could still see her point. Needless to say, the tragedy of the September 11th was truly horrific. I didn't know anyone in the towers, though I did have a friend who himself knew two people who had perished. Did I cry on the day? I'm sorry, but I did not. I don't think it makes me heartless, it makes me what I am; not personally or directly involved with such a tragedy.

Do I think it equally tragic and horrific today? Yes.
Is it wise to forget such a tragedy? Of course not.
Is it easier for me to distance myself emotionally and NOT feel such emotions rise within me when I see a thread rabout it? Definately.

Raven Star is one of a number of people in this forum who aren't American and who didn't have proximity to such a tragedy, and it must be a realised fact that, for such a group, the tragedy holds different implications and different emotions.

3,000 people dying in one day is more 'impressive' than the dozens of people who would be killed at every IRA terrorist attack that has ever happened in London, but 'I' feel the IRA tragedy more. And its not just the IRA, its the ETA attacks in Spain - which HAVE brought personal tragedy to me, its the Chiapa terrorists STILL going on and destroying the South of Mexico - where my mother is from, its the Albanian terrorist attacks that still go on in Macedonia (where my ex-fiance came from), but are never heard of . These are my tragedies, and to me they involve me more emotionally.

This particular tragedy was also even more traumatic because of the sheer loss of life in one awful blow - I don't presume to even fathom how Americans, and those who were directly affected by the event, can cope with it. I don't talk about it, because inevitably one runs the risk of trivializing such atrocities.

My point is, there are other atrocities that other people are more emotionally involved with. There are other countries, most in fact, who have been dealing with terrorism for a much longer period of time, and who have lived in fear long before. I am NOT comparing tragedies and awarding brownie points to who's is the more tragic, I'm merely pointing out that to some - to MOST - people of the world, September the 11th does not hold the same importance as it does for Americans.

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Old 09-09-2002, 04:12 PM   #105
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Thank you, Anthony.
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