9/11: The most over-rated thing ever?

[sharky]

Ok, its my turn to state my opinion and make you all pissed off at me.

In terms of merchandising and media coverage, its way out of control. TV stations are doing this to get ratings and give Americans what they want to see.

But I admit I am offended that those of you who call yourselves Americans try to attach yourselves to the tragedy the way you are in this discussion. Yes this was an attack on America but it was also an attack on New York. All these so-called Americans who thought NYC was smelly and dirty and filled with rude people before Sept. 11 turned around and said everyone was a New Yorker and they loved this city. And yet when the chips were down, they sent us a check, turned off the TV and became isolationist and closed minded instead of trying to understand why people hate us. I feel some of you are doing that in this thread-- the whole they attacked America-- and that lack of understanding is putting all of us in danger again.

I'm really sorry you all had to watch this tragedy on TV but I was there in person. I was two blocks away from the south tower when it collapsed. I still know what those buildings tasted like, what that cloud of debris looked like, what it felt like to think I was going to die. And yet the last time I was down at Ground Zero [two weeks ago] there were a bunch of amusement park tourists smiling with a big gapping hole behind them as if the trade center was still a tourist attraction.

I'm glad you all feel the pain of what happened that day but don't try and act like because you're an American you're a martyr. You got to watch it on TV and forget about it until the anniversary. I wish I could have done that.

 

[Bonochick]

Like I said. Being killed, raped, etc, is NOT lucky. Having lived in a good country IS lucky.

Yes...it's nice that they were able to live in a good country. However, nothing can justify or soften such a tragic ending to an innocent person's life.

 

[RavenStar]

Ok, its my turn to state my opinion and make you all pissed off at me.

In terms of merchandising and media coverage, its way out of control. TV stations are doing this to get ratings and give Americans what they want to see.

But I admit I am offended that those of you who call yourselves Americans try to attach yourselves to the tragedy the way you are in this discussion. Yes this was an attack on America but it was also an attack on New York. All these so-called Americans who thought NYC was smelly and dirty and filled with rude people before Sept. 11 turned around and said everyone was a New Yorker and they loved this city. And yet when the chips were down, they sent us a check, turned off the TV and became isolationist and closed minded instead of trying to understand why people hate us. I feel some of you are doing that in this thread-- the whole they attacked America-- and that lack of understanding is putting all of us in danger again.

I'm really sorry you all had to watch this tragedy on TV but I was there in person. I was two blocks away from the south tower when it collapsed. I still know what those buildings tasted like, what that cloud of debris looked like, what it felt like to think I was going to die. And yet the last time I was down at Ground Zero [two weeks ago] there were a bunch of amusement park tourists smiling with a big gapping hole behind them as if the trade center was still a tourist attraction.

I'm glad you all feel the pain of what happened that day but don't try and act like because you're an American you're a martyr. You got to watch it on TV and forget about it until the anniversary. I wish I could have done that.

I couldnt agree with you more. Very well said. Man, I suck at explaining things.

 

[Bonochick]

I'm really sorry you all had to watch this tragedy on TV but I was there in person. I was two blocks away from the south tower when it collapsed. I still know what those buildings tasted like, what that cloud of debris looked like, what it felt like to think I was going to die. And yet the last time I was down at Ground Zero [two weeks ago] there were a bunch of amusement park tourists smiling with a big gapping hole behind them as if the trade center was still a tourist attraction.

I'm glad you all feel the pain of what happened that day but don't try and act like because you're an American you're a martyr. You got to watch it on TV and forget about it until the anniversary. I wish I could have done that.

I can understand where you are coming from. The events of September 11th touched every American (and so many, many other people in the world) and continue to do so. However, I would never go so far as to say we were all equally affected. Those like you who witnessed it firsthand definitely have it a lot harder than those of us who witnessed it on the TV while sitting on our comfy couches.

 

[V Nura]

Not being kicked in teh head on a daily basis..is lucky....what's your point?


tragedy is tragedy...life is life..no matter where you live.


and I dont' think you understand that some of us knew people in those towers

 

[RavenStar]

Yes...it's nice that they were able to live in a good country. However, nothing can justify or soften such a tragic ending to an innocent person's life.

I never said it does. Im just saying it could have been worse.

 

[RavenStar]

Not being kicked in teh head on a daily basis..is lucky....what's your point?


tragedy is tragedy...life is life..no matter where you live.


and I dont' think you understand that some of us knew people in those towers

I knew people in those towers too. One of them got out, the other didnt. Life is not just life. There is a good life, and a not so good life. Living in America usually means a good life. Living in Africa usually means a not so good life.

 

[V Nura]

OK..let's look at teh other side of YOUR argument



if 3,000 africans died in a manner similar to sept 11th


should I feel glad because tehy were liberated of a life of suffering????


certainly not....though what's happening in Africa is terrible


it does not make sept 11th any less tragic

and for you to assign degrees of value to human life based on the affluence and freedoms they are afforded is wrong.

 

[KhanadaRhodes]

Your views re this topic come accross as being "sub-human"

Your understanding of Satanism doent espouse subhuman beliefs does it?

i was once called subhuman by an aethist. who is also jewish. by saying he's jewish i mean his parents are jewish, and he celebrates jewish holidays with them. yet he called himself an aethist. i know this has nothing to do with the topic, but i was kinda hoping to confuse everyone.

 

[Screaming Flower]

I couldnt agree with you more. Very well said. Man, I suck at explaining things.

give me a fucking break and make up your mind already. why don't you actually think first and then say what you mean rather than backpeddle and try and jump on board the first intelligent response that you agree with. you've changed "what you meant" three times already. this thread is a joke.

 

[Danospano]

I also believe that it's an issue of America wanted pity for their punishment. What do I mean by punishment? Well, I guess I'm refering to the rape, murder and betrayal of the U.S. government and everything it stands for. I also refer to the hundreds of millions of Native Americans who never got an annual remembrance for their ancestors deathes that occured year after year for over 500 years and counting.

We should forget this is anything special and move on with our lives. We should start caring for the living. The dying in Africa, the ignorant in Asia, the souless in America. These are much more prudent in our current times.

Amen....

 

[adamswildhoney]

give me a fucking break and make up your mind already. why don't you actually think first and then say what you mean rather than backpeddle and try and jump on board the first intelligent response that you agree with. you've changed "what you meant" three times already. this thread is a joke.

I think that this thread is starting to become a joke to. I think that Ravenstar doesnt quite know how to say what she wants to say and hasnt lived long enough to understand where all the rest of us are coming from.

 

[LarryMullen's POPAngel]

Get your head out of your ass and try thinking before you speak, RS.


This thread is a fucking joke if I ever saw one.

 

[Danospano]

I also wanted to say that I'm terribly sorry for all the type-os that appear in my posts. Sorry, sorry, sorry

The tragedy that occured last year wasn't a happy moment for anyone with a heart. Innocent people were killed. I would have rather seen the terrorist at least attempt to direct their actions toward the people who were responsible for their anger (No, I'm not hinting at anyone in particular). At least THEN, it would make sense, but killing innocent janitors, salesmen, and firefighters (who demand respect in any culture), was sad and brought many tears to my eye (I only have one eye do to a boating accident).

Let's just look at the big picture. This is drop in the bucket when we consider the crimes against humanity that have plague our nations and others since the beginning of time.

Didn't we have closure last year? If not, why NOT!?!?!

This is a great discussion.

Elvis and mods: thanks for leaving it open.

 

[Lilly]

this is touchy everyone, let's make sure that we aren't making personal shots and that we be sure to read posts carefully before we respond.

thank you,

lilly

 

[V Nura]

I'm going to direct my attn to more productive matters....I suggest otehrs do the same....I'd liek to see this thread sink like a rock

 

[foray]

Ravenstar, this is what you did wrong:

I know people died and building collapsed and stuff

and this is what Elvis has been trying to tell you:

If you meant to say 'all the merchandise is overrated' ... you should have said that. Your post does not read that way - at all.

You have a right to voice an opinion. You have a right to loathe using tact when stating a point. But know this: when approaching an extremely sensitive topic, you should give a thought on how it will come across. In such cases, semantics and the choice of your words are of utmost importance. Do try to learn this lesson. You could lose your friends, career, dignity or respect if you don't.

That said, we're not saying that 9/11 is more of a tragedy than what happens on the streets. What makes 9/11 stand out, if it's not obvious enough already, is that hundreds of people died ALL AT ONCE. No, think about it. If one friend of yours died, you'd naturally be sad and very upset. But if, say, five of your friends died all at once in a freak incident, then it'd be more upsetting. It's the freak-ish part about it that makes 9/11 stand out.

Do you understand, Ravenstar?

foray

 

[pinkfloyd]

it's a tragedy for american people , ALL of them , 3000 of innocent lives , terrible terrorist attack . there should be a memorial , shoud be a minute of silence every year ( maybe ) , but people must forget it in some way , to let it go , leave it behind ( except for military inteligence and some other folks ) , our children must live and be happy and they must not to question themselves everyday ( like today ) who is ben Laden ??? for example , little children in kindrgarden or school talking stuff like " Let's kill terrorists , sadam hussein is bad etc etc etc " it's not right . it's sick . and it must be healed .


Love and hope for Peace !

 

[pax]

Thank you, foray. I hope RavenStar takes the time to read your post.

Thank you as well to the many people who have replied to this thread. This has become in a matter of hours one of the best threads I've seen in FYM in a while--and I mean that.

 

[Danospano]

Pax, it sounds like you're taking sides. Is that part of a mod's job?

I just ask because it sounds like your claiming that this thread is somewhat better than others, mostly due to the fact that it's supporting the most popular opinion of the people who responded.

Threads that have little or no conflicting debate are in my opinion boring and in need of overhaul . That's just my opinion.

But seriously, is a mod supposed to take sides on moral, ethical, and political issues? It just seems like that sort of thing would come back to haunt you, if you happened to ban someone that held a drastically different opinion.

Cheers, Dan

 

[Elvis]

i was once called subhuman by an aethist. who is also jewish. by saying he's jewish i mean his parents are jewish, and he celebrates jewish holidays with them. yet he called himself an aethist. i know this has nothing to do with the topic, but i was kinda hoping to confuse everyone.

Khanada... while I always appreciate confusion... and it sounds like this person was confused... I think your post did nothing for this thread It infers a bit of a stereotype... being that it didnt really matter what this guys heritage was, he was an ass to call u 'subhuman'. Please rethink your 'confusing' posts before you post It's as bad as....
(example)
I once had an old Chinese man walk up to me at an outdoor mall/plaza... said to me "you're the anti-christ, you're the anti-christ, you jew-ish arent you, you the anti-christ".

My point... the guy was a WHACK JOB, it was irrelevant that he was Chinese, and my brief use of emphasing his poor use of the english language was as well.

I'm not trying to point you out... just trying to make a point in general that people on this forum (and elsewhere) should try to avoid steretypes, intentional or not.

Joel

 

[Elvis]

Pax, it sounds like you're taking sides. Is that part of a mod's job?

I just ask because it sounds like your claiming that this thread is somewhat better than others, mostly due to the fact that it's supporting the most popular opinion of the people who responded.

Threads that have little or no conflicting debate are in my opinion boring and in need of overhaul . That's just my opinion.

But seriously, is a mod supposed to take sides on moral, ethical, and political issues? It just seems like that sort of thing would come back to haunt you, if you happened to ban someone that held a drastically different opinion.

Cheers, Dan

Hell no Dan, A mod is supposed to be a superior being, ignoring all feelings, emotion, and knowledge, and never express such. In essence, they are cyborgs, controlled from a central computer that is attached to the forum, and follow the commands from a single, unbiased, and perfect entity that was developed with John Lennon's song 'Imagine' as the model.



Joel

 

[Danospano]

Cyborgs? Please tell you are joking. I've been fearful of robot-men since I was 4 years old. Don't joke about that shit.

In all seriousness, can I get an answer from someone? I know that if a mod that I disagreed with banned me from a forum, it would be unjust. Does justice matter in this place? (There's another question).

 

[Elvis]

Cyborgs? Please tell you are joking. I've been fearful of robot-men since I was 4 years old. Don't joke about that shit.

In all seriousness, can I get an answer from someone? I know that if a mod that I disagreed with banned me from a forum, it would be unjust. Does justice matter in this place? (There's another question).

Mods dont have the power to ban a member from a forum, or the entire place...

I do. Sicy Does.

But, all (rare) bans are discussed between Sicy and I when making the ultimate decision, so you need not fear being banned by a mod.

 

[Lilly]

it takes a lot to be banned.

Cyborgs?

 

[Angela Harlem]

Well bugger me.

Just wanted to offer some thoughts from the spare room/study/comp room of Angela H.

It pains me to think Americans might believe they are crying alone, suffering alone, were alone attacked on that day. I think the world is united when it is crying for the 3000 people killed on that day. The rest we mourn in various ways perhaps. From a distance, comes a sense of frustration at being so far away to really help, we can send money, but what could we do for the city of New York in the time that followed that? We felt from afar, the pain felt by an entire nation. The effects of that day, those few hours of terror, spread right across the globe. We cried for you all. We all must remember. Never forget. Yes America was suddenly and viciously assaulted, and still, we all try to find the reasons why those innocent lives ended. It was an assault on mankind, like someone said. I hope no one feels America must pull up the blinds and close the door on the rest of the world. We didnt get attacked, it was not majority of my people who were killed, but they were 3000 innocent lives. Where they lived and what their country stood for, is food for argument - wound openers, political weapons - the world is hurting because of it. It matters not where it happened, only why and that awful number who were lost. So many in one brutal, ugly, cowardly attack.

I am not ashamed to admit this, I want to watch the tv on that day, I want to see the specials. When the attack occured, like many, I think I was in a bit of a daze. 2 things in that time, I could not get my head around. The method of attack, and the number of people lost. I want to try to understand the hate involved. Perhaps I am too naive. I just didn't think it could happen. It happening at all, never occured to me. Wars are fought in countries that are usually different in some fundamental way to mine, suddenly that changed. How can America, a country who loves it freedom, the diversity of its people, its successes, its willingness to be a big brother to so many, be that despised, the taking of 3000 innocents is seen as a victory?

Maybe its best not to understand. But I want to try. We can never forget.

 

[TylerDurden]

I agree with all of the above from Angela.

Over the next hundred years a million people will write a million essays on the topic of what it meant and where it fits in history. It was only a year ago, 'the story' is still unfolding so comparing it at this stage to other historical events is pointless. And you can't compare it with plain statistics of other large scale deaths. Besides, at their peak the WTC buildings held nearly 50,000 people. It could have easily been a much better statistic for your comparions if it were a different time on a different day and rescue workers didn't do such a good job. It's beside the point.

I think how much of an impact it has depends on where you come from. Here in Australia, like the US, stuff like that doesn't happen, has never happened. Its a big deal in Australia because we've always had the attitude that things like that never happen in places like this. We fight in wars, terrorism on a large scale happens, terrible large scale killing happens, but its always 'over there somewhere', never here. I assume the average American before 9/11 felt the same way. Watching something like that happen to the US is especially chilling because it feels a little too close to home.

For people from alot of other parts of the world, war, terrorism, large scale killings are all things that in the last century have occured very close to home. kind of explains their more average or indifferent response to it.

The key is of course what the US learns from it, and what the world does about it. I think Afghanistan was the right immediate response, that had to be done, and was handled really really well, but from now on what the US does will be really important in stopping an event like that happening again, and also (maybe more important in the long run) stopping people from wanting an event like that happening again.

I think alot of what has come out of the US is over commercialised, the bumper stickers, t-shirts etc but hey I think that's just the US for you.

I'll be watching some of the shows on Wednesday. And Im going to New York in January. Last time I was there I was 16, and one of the highlights for me was how fucking cool the view was from the roof of the WTC.
And the way New York carried itself then through to now has been incredibly impressive and inspirational.

 

[daisybean]

My 2 cents

1. Perhaps you meant meant overkill instead of overrated....I fear that there will be a media saturation, and people would become desensitized to what happened. Some people clearly have. However, your initial post seems geared more to shit stirring than having a open discussion. Either you are truely a negative person, or just like to get people riled up.

I for one am glad that we can continue to have this discussion.
Thank you for not closing the thread so I could give my 2 cents (which happens to be the same two cents as most everyone else).

2. In terms of that the 3,000 people who died that day should consider themselves lucky that they didn't live in Africa and have to suffer with HIV/AIDS, this logic makes no sense to me. Not everyone in America is living in "Leave it to Beaver Land." There are millions of "lucky" American living in their cars, and on the street, hoping that they can find anything to feed their children, hoping for a way out and up There are millions of Americans living with the AIDS virus and HIV who can't afford the medical care to give them a better quality of life.

3. I knew the mods were robots, I just knew it.

 

[pax]

Dano, simply because I am a mod does not mean that I am not allowed to hold, and discuss, my own opinions. I try to remain impartial as to the *value* of others' opinions; i.e. a conservative member's opinion holds as much as water as a liberal's, or a newbie's as much as a veteran's.

RavenStar voiced her opinion, and I have every right to think that she voiced it poorly. I did not close her thread, though I wanted to.

And the next time you have an issue with me--or with another mod--take it up via PM, mmmmkay?

 

[TripThruUreWires]

All I have to say is that this thread is by far the worst thread ever posted in Interference (and i don't even need to go through the archives)!! Ravenstar, way to hit an all time low! You should be real proud of yourself. Should any of your friends or family die such a horrific and unjust death, i sure hope others treat you with such disdain!