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Old 12-13-2006, 06:25 PM   #166
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The day we will actually find out Bush has fooled us will be the day guys like you finally will come up with facts, backed by reliable sources, that we have reason to believe.

But I know this day will never come, and that is not only because you are too incompetent to do so."

I said from the start that I am not going to go about prooving this once and for all. It is very tiresome and I do not really care about it. Others with more resources can do that job.

Just wanted to check the feel among other U2 fans on this issue. Not discuss it to death among people who never would believe anything shown them. But that is ok you are entitled to that opinion as I am to mine. No need for harassing.

Take a deep breath.. and be kind
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Old 12-13-2006, 06:31 PM   #167
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where are you from ArthDent?
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Old 12-13-2006, 06:32 PM   #168
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Norway. Why?
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Old 12-13-2006, 06:41 PM   #169
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Originally posted by ArthDent
Norway. Why?


because it's quite offensive to suggest that someone's government deliberately and callously killed 3,000 of its own citizens.

there aren't too many people who dislike Bush more than i do, but the theories you're suggesting offend even me.

this has nothing to do with facing the truth or seeing reality. you're making poorly substantiated accusations based on very little and using that to indict an entire country, and it's leader (however unpopular he might be, and he is very unpopular these days), in some sort of global conspiracy well beyond the grasp of a James Bon supervillian.
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Old 12-13-2006, 06:42 PM   #170
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OK, so we're still going. I propose we don't progress until we get an answer to the following question:

Arth, WHERE ARE YOUR SOURCES?

Google/YouTube videos don't count. Give us something scholarly, complete with citations and references so that its evidence and conclusions are verifiable. In other words, give us something believeable. I'm sure most people in this thread would be happy to take your posts seriously if you could provide sufficient cause for them to do so.

Please stop dodging this question. If you want this thread to progress in a serious manner instead of with ridicule and humour, you pretty much need to answer it.
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Ian McCulloch the U2 fan:
"Who buys U2 records anyway? It's just music for plumbers and bricklayers. Bono, what a slob. You'd think with all that climbing about he does, he'd look real fit and that. But he's real fat, y'know. Reminds me of a soddin' mountain goat."
"And as for Bono, he needs a colostomy bag for his mouth."

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Old 12-13-2006, 06:49 PM   #171
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What is this ridicule about the internet and youtube etc Yes it is on the internet and therefor automatically bullshit? I hate yes HATE these narrowminded thinking. That means that everything you say and write on this forum is utter bullshit also. Where is the logic? If someone scans every page of the Bible, put it on the internet as a youtube movie or as a flash picture slideshow.. then what? Is it not the bible? The internet has been here for well over 10 years and served us well. It is a great way of sharing information. It it not 100% bullshit! It's like the myths that everything is all about porn and nothing else.. Yeah like that is true. It's like watching TV. You get lots of info but you have to differenciate between fact and fiction. No one tells you what is what. It's your job right?

And about me claiming that yourt government killed 3000 people.. Well what about the thousands in Iraq and Afghanistan? The Governments fault! They invaded on flase premisses! Lied to you! Over 3000 US soldiers dead right? Plus countless civillians! All the same! You get my drift?
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Old 12-13-2006, 06:55 PM   #172
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Quote:
Originally posted by ArthDent
And about me claiming that yourt government killed 3000 people.. Well what about the thousands in Iraq and Afghanistan? The Governments fault! They invaded on flase premisses! Lied to you! Over 3000 US soldiers dead right? Plus countless civillians! All the same! You get my drift?


no! it is NOT the same.

there is a total difference between 3,000 people who were killed because they happened to be going to work on a sunny tuesday than the soldiers and civilians who have been killed as part of a major military operation.

this is not to say that one life is more valuable than the next; but it is to say that context does matter when evaluating the actions of a government.

your thinking is EXTREMELY simplistic.
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Old 12-13-2006, 06:56 PM   #173
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Arth, the reason YouTube is not a very good source is because even I can put a video up on YouTube. Anyone with basic video editing software can put together some low-res clips, make a conspiracy movie, throw in some unsourced and unsubstantiated or distorted "facts", and put it on YouTube.

The problem is not with the Internet itself. The problem is with whether or not the source's evidence and conclusions are referenced and verifiable. In my academic work, I use the Internet as a source all the time - scholarly databases such as JSTOR are fantastic, much better than any paper library. When I use sources from there, I can check to see if its claims have references so I can verify them. Can you produce evidence of that calibre? Can you produce referenced articles from peer-reviewed academic journals? That's the sort of stuff that will end the ridicule and start serious dialogue.

So, I ask again, WHERE ARE YOUR SOURCES?
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Ian McCulloch the U2 fan:
"Who buys U2 records anyway? It's just music for plumbers and bricklayers. Bono, what a slob. You'd think with all that climbing about he does, he'd look real fit and that. But he's real fat, y'know. Reminds me of a soddin' mountain goat."
"And as for Bono, he needs a colostomy bag for his mouth."

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Old 12-13-2006, 06:57 PM   #174
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BTW here is a link to those who wants to view well educated people like professors of Physics etc that does not believe 9-11 was a terror attack. They present their views and facts.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...399&q=scholars

Please view it in full and not come complaining about no facts..
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Old 12-13-2006, 07:06 PM   #175
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I posted links earlier to the demolition of WTC7 and a 50 minutes eye witness story. He talks about everything he experienced. He was a generator in WTC towers. Worked there for 20 years. He was offered high positions, book, movie etc but turned down millions in order to tell his story. Why should he be lying like this? His facts involve people he helped survive etc. Please do watch it in full. But again do your own research as well. Why was there a drill on 9-11 on hijakced planes at the time of the real hijacking. NORAD at one time asked if it was a drill or real. And they were told drill.. When they first understood the mistake. Planes were sendt in the opposite directions. Really laughable. But again do some research. Why should I feed you like a mother to a child. You are grown ups. The facts are out there.
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Old 12-13-2006, 07:13 PM   #176
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Quote:
Originally posted by Axver
Arth, the reason YouTube is not a very good source is because even I can put a video up on YouTube. Anyone with basic video editing software can put together some low-res clips, make a conspiracy movie, throw in some unsourced and unsubstantiated or distorted "facts", and put it on YouTube.

The problem is not with the Internet itself. The problem is with whether or not the source's evidence and conclusions are referenced and verifiable. In my academic work, I use the Internet as a source all the time - scholarly databases such as JSTOR are fantastic, much better than any paper library. When I use sources from there, I can check to see if its claims have references so I can verify them. Can you produce evidence of that calibre? Can you produce referenced articles from peer-reviewed academic journals? That's the sort of stuff that will end the ridicule and start serious dialogue.

So, I ask again, WHERE ARE YOUR SOURCES?
You avoid my post almost completely. As I said it doesn't matter if it is youtube or CNN videos.. You make up your own opinion on the material. Yes everyone can upload there and so what? If I find three interesting clips. Yes I can put them after one another and add text to explain my theory. Why is that wrong? It's all down to using common sense. U can spot a fony pretty quick!
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Old 12-13-2006, 07:13 PM   #177
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511

because it's quite offensive to suggest that someone's government deliberately and callously killed 3,000 of its own citizens.
Alexander Litvinenko blamed the 1999 Russian apartment bombings(which killed a few hundred Russian citizens) on the FSB. The bombings, however, were publicly linked to Chechen terrorists and used to justify war. And we saw what happened to Litvinenko.
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Old 12-13-2006, 07:13 PM   #178
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Quote:
Originally posted by ArthDent
The facts are out there.
Perhaps you should consider taking this advice.
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Old 12-13-2006, 07:18 PM   #179
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Quote:
Originally posted by ArthDent
These are well known facts..
Well known by who, the same guys who claim the holocaust didn't exist?

Was the moon landing faked as well?

Still haven't seen one fact.
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Old 12-13-2006, 07:22 PM   #180
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Quote:
Originally posted by ArthDent
BTW here is a link to those who wants to view well educated people like professors of Physics etc that does not believe 9-11 was a terror attack. They present their views and facts.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...399&q=scholars

Please view it in full and not come complaining about no facts..
Great. It's no good to just be a professor of physics. That's just a baseless appeal to authority. Now, if these professors of physics can cite their sources so that their claims are VERIFIABLE, then we're on the right track.

Do you have any referenced, verifiable sources from peer-reviewed academic journals?
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Ian McCulloch the U2 fan:
"Who buys U2 records anyway? It's just music for plumbers and bricklayers. Bono, what a slob. You'd think with all that climbing about he does, he'd look real fit and that. But he's real fat, y'know. Reminds me of a soddin' mountain goat."
"And as for Bono, he needs a colostomy bag for his mouth."

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