60,480,957 Idiots in America?

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drivemytrabant

War Child
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The President reached 60 million+ mark for his vote total in the election. Alot of people have been saying that the only people who voted for Bush were red-neck southerners, homophobes, and just plain and simple complete idiots. (The UK paper "The Daily Mirror" for example ran the headline "D'oh 4 More Years of Dubya--How can X Number of people be so DUMB?") How then, do we explain this number? Are there really nearly 60.5 million idiots living in this country?
 
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Well I naturally assumed that they meant that 60 million of the people that didn't vote were ignorant.

/sarcasm at the pretentious bastards, oh well at least they didn't refer to you as colonials.
 
This is really offensive. But what's even more offensive is that the mods really don't care that people here call conservatives idiots, etc...

;(
 
I'm not going to call 60 million plus of my compatriots idiots. They're not. The fact of the matter is that this was the most emotionally charged election since 1968. I'm relieved it's all over. It was a really tense, uptight thing for me. It didn't go the way I would have liked but this didn't exactly shock me. The thing I disliked the most about it was the length, eight months! Eight f:censored:g months for a political campaign! There's probably nothing we can do about our campaignathons. The media wants it that way, they're way too powerful to challenge on this, so there. Damn. :mad: :madspit: :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored:
 
Madelyn, I'm really getting a bit sick of your cheap shots at the mods in here. I'm sure you could dig up about a million incidents in which I've admonished BOTH sides to keep it clean and respectful...if you cared to do your research. And, yes, I do take the comment personally, because although many mods contribute to the moderation on FYM, I probably do the majority of it.

We have "vacationed" or banned from FYM persons on both sides of the fence who can't keep a level head about things. Again, if you cared to do your homework, you'd know this.

And, finally, "idiot" comments are the least of my worries in FYM, though I do try to be aware of them and try to keep people in line. I'm much more worried about the blatantly sexist/racist/homophobic things that come off in here; the wishing of death or destruction on people or places; and the damn near ubiquitous (these days) "Nazi" slams.

FYM is not an easy place to mod, and I invite you to express your interest to Sicy or Elvis if you think you can do better.
 
pax, I think most of us here on both sides of the political spectrum appreciate the hell out of the fine job you and the other mods do. I can only imagine how hard this forum is to moderate, and to keep us behaving like adults and such. Thanks to you guys people learn that they'd better respect the opinions of others or they're not long for this forum. Trust me it is not a job I would want to do. MadelynIris, quite frankly I don't think you're being fair to the mods. They do their best to keep "idiot" type posts out of here. They do get on our case for calling people names. I missed the post-election threads because I was a thousand miles away from my computer in D.C, but I've been told there was a fair amount of acrimony and such. You can't go through something that emotional and not have a few fireworks. That's when I think that if I were a mod I'd hand in my resignation. Whew!
 
verte76 said:
pax, I think most of us here on both sides of the political spectrum appreciate the hell out of the fine job you and the other mods do. I can only imagine how hard this forum is to moderate, and to keep us behaving like adults and such. Thanks to you guys people learn that they'd better respect the opinions of others or they're not long for this forum. Trust me it is not a job I would want to do. MadelynIris, quite frankly I don't think you're being fair to the mods. They do their best to keep "idiot" type posts out of here. They do get on our case for calling people names. I missed the post-election threads because I was a thousand miles away from my computer in D.C, but I've been told there was a fair amount of acrimony and such. You can't go through something that emotional and not have a few fireworks. That's when I think that if I were a mod I'd hand in my resignation. Whew!

:yes: well-stated. Shall we turn this into a mod-appreciation thread?

Hooray for the mods!!!:applaud:
 
drivemytrabant said:
The President reached 60 million+ mark for his vote total in the election. Alot of people have been saying that the only people who voted for Bush were red-neck southerners, homophobes, and just plain and simple complete idiots. (The UK paper "The Daily Mirror" for example ran the headline "D'oh 4 More Years of Dubya--How can X Number of people be so DUMB?") How then, do we explain this number? Are there really nearly 60.5 million idiots living in this country?

Are you referring to people here on Inteference or the media and the public in general? If you're referring to people who post in FYM, I haven't seen people use the terms you're claiming they use. Maybe I haven't read the right threads, I dunno.
 
Thanks, y'all. ;)

Getting back on topic...

No, I don't think all people who voted for Bush are idiots, nor do I think it's right to refer to Bush voters that way. My dad voted for Bush, and though I disagree with that choice, my dad is an intelligent man who thought his choice through, and that's all we can ask for.

That said, I do think it's possible to vote against one's own self-interest, and I'm sure some people did do exactly that--in voting for either Bush OR Kerry. But even that doesn't make one an idiot. Maybe not especially astute about politics, but certainly not an idiot.
 
I don't think all people who voted for Bush are idiots but you have to admit there were some who voted simply for Bush because of the gay marriage crap and not because they educated themselves on what was really going on with Iraq, health care and poverty in this country. I think the idiots were these "moral voter" that were one-issue voters and the focus on them makes the rest of the Bush voters look dumb. I frankly think it's irresponsible to be a one-issue voter in any election especially this past election. If you educated yourself on all the issues and voted for Bush, so be it. That's what my mom did. But this reminds me of a political cartoon I put in that thread: "I've got no job, my kids have no health insurance, my brother's in Iraq, but thank God gay people can't marry each other." Or as Steven Colbert said on the Daily Show "We in New York are too close to the gays and the terrorism to make an educated decision so on behalf of the blue states, I would like to thank the red states for saving us from ourselves."

As for the Daily Mirror front page, can you blame them? I mean, why would they not say that based on how the world views us?

And so what is Bush got 60+ million votes...doesn't change the fact that more people voted against him than any other president. 51% is not a mandate.
 
I also think that it's wrong for people to go around touting the fact that Bush has gotten the highest popular vote of any president. In my opinion, it's only because there are more people living in the US than before and there appeared to be a higher voter turnout than most recent elections!


Perhaps I'm thinking too simplisitically, but hey. :shrug:
 
pianorocker said:
I also think that it's wrong for people to go around touting the fact that Bush has gotten the highest popular vote of any president. In my opinion, it's only because there are more people living in the US than before and there appeared to be a higher voter turnout than most recent elections!


Perhaps I'm thinking too simplisitically, but hey. :shrug:

Kerry also got more votes than anyone (except bush) in history. You're right, and it's as simple as that, which is why you're thinking simplitically!
 
PS-Pax you rock! You do an excellent job dealing with those of us who lose our tempers in this forum :wink:. Ok back on topic. No not all bush supporters are idiots, I know many who are very intelligent.
 
I don't favor threads with topics that insist that everyone who votes for a certain person is an idiot. Is that saying that all the Americans who DON'T VOTE AT ALL are geniuses?

Another thing: I'll never understand how the left defines "tolerance" until they can tolerate a republican president. Gotta practice what you preach.
 
Re: Re: 60,480,957 Idiots in America?

pub crawler said:


Are you referring to people here on Inteference or the media and the public in general? If you're referring to people who post in FYM, I haven't seen people use the terms you're claiming they use. Maybe I haven't read the right threads, I dunno.

I'm not really refering to the people on Interference calling Bush voters idiot--tho it has been done (to be fair both sides have been called idiots I'm sure) but the media and the people I meet around my home. (I live in a highly democratic area)
 
MadelynIris said:
This is really offensive. But what's even more offensive is that the mods really don't care that people here call conservatives idiots, etc...

;(
On one level I agree with you, but I also realize that the forum is called Free Your Mind, not Don't Offend Anyone.
 
sharky said:
I don't think all people who voted for Bush are idiots but you have to admit there were some who voted simply for Bush because of the gay marriage crap and not because they educated themselves on what was really going on with Iraq, health care and poverty in this country. I think the idiots were these "moral voter" that were one-issue voters and the focus on them makes the rest of the Bush voters look dumb. I frankly think it's irresponsible to be a one-issue voter in any election especially this past election. If you educated yourself on all the issues and voted for Bush, so be it. That's what my mom did.

Ok if you want to say that some of Bush's voters were one issue voters fine. What percentage of Kerry voters voted for Kerry simply because he wasn't Bush?
 
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I also don't think the President has a "mandate." But with large majorities in the house and senate--at the very least he should be able to accompish most of his agenda. And yes, Kerry also got a high number of votes. This, combined with Bush's total, is a great sign for our country. It means more people are voting than ever.
 
Tire of my cheap shots? Please point them out.

Sharky said...

I think the idiots were these "moral voter" that were one-issue voters and the focus on them makes the rest of the Bush voters look dumb

Again, I feel like a total idiot for testing the candidates against some moral basis of my own. I am dumb.

Mark
 
Re: Re: Re: 60,480,957 Idiots in America?

drivemytrabant said:


I'm not really refering to the people on Interference calling Bush voters idiot--tho it has been done (to be fair both sides have been called idiots I'm sure) but the media and the people I meet around my home. (I live in a highly democratic area)

Gotcha. Thanks for clarifying. :up:
 
I've said it before, I'd love to see free speech reign somewhere on this forum. Make an unmoderated section! I want to hear it all. Let only the brave enter.

But what's even more offensive is that the mods really don't care that people here call conservatives idiots, etc...

I remember your thread about wanting an unmoderated forum, too. Whatever you actually meant by that, I'm not going to speculate. But the fact is that the mods DO care. Some of our smartest and most thoughtful post-ers are conservatives, and you'll never hear me say otherwise.

Like I said, if you think you can do better...
 
MadelynIris said:
Tire of my cheap shots? Please point them out.

Sharky said...



Again, I feel like a total idiot for testing the candidates against some moral basis of my own. I am dumb.

Mark

Well, since you admit it yourself, I'll certainly agree with you. :D


And I would like to point out that you picked out one part of one post out of 1,351,794. Big fucking deal.
 
And I would like to point out that you picked out one part of one post out of 1,351,794. Big fucking deal.

Just going for some balance. Apparently, the idiots are underepresented in FYM.

I made a slight play for some freeing of some minds, and what do I get...
 
i understand the resistance that many conservatives feel about being call "idiots" or "dumb." i know conservatives (who didn't vote for Bush) who aren't dumb, and i know Bush voters (who aren't conservative) who aren't dumb either.

however, when you're a leftish Kerry voter, and you see all the problems facing the country and what were actually *very* subtansive debates, to hear that more than 22% of those voting for bush velt that "moral values" -- which i think we can safely say means anti-choice, anti-gay marriage ... that may be incomplete, but it's closer to the truth than not -- were more important than Iraq, the War on Terror, health care, education, etc., it is very disconcerting.

we sit back and ask: what is more important than success in Iraq, whether or not you supported the invasion (i marched in DC against the war, i still want us to be successfull now that we're there). what could be more important than addressing the concerns of 40m uninsured? yes, i know that this doesn't even comprise the majority of bush voters, but this particular constitutency has, since the election, stated that they won the election for Bush and are awaiting their payoffs, probably in the form of Supreme Court justicies. see recent comments by people like James Dobson and Bob Jones, and the fact that Rove organized much of his ground game around conservative churches in swing states.

this is where it does feel like 2 countries living in 2 different worlds.

you could prefer Bush's stances on Iraq, or health care, or education, but for such a sizeable portion of people not to point to their preference for Bush on those matters but for the fact that he represents their "moral values" gives one pause.

it may not be stupid or idiotic, but it does feel a bit like missing the forest for the trees. it's blinkiered at best, willfully self-deceiving at first.
 
Although Irvine511 may dislike my stance on moral values, I will say that he did shine light on the subject. He probably has a good understanding of how a conservative might feel in a "conservatives are idiots" thread. Thank you for your thoughtful post.
 
[than 22% of those voting for bush velt that "moral values" -- which i think we can safely say means anti-choice, anti-gay marriage ... that may be incomplete, but it's closer to the truth than not --]

I don't think that is at the heart of a lot of the moral vote at all. I have a family and what I don't want is the embracing of Eminem, Howard Stern or most in Hollywood as my childrens icons. Most of these people have little or no education and no value system at all. I'm not uptight, not trying to stop them from doing what they're doing. I even find them entertaining more times than not, but they are certainly not what I want my children to aspire to. Unfortunately, that seems to be a measure of success these days.

Regarding, gay marriage... I think many people are upset with the terminalogy more than the granting of equal rights. The term "marriage" has been represented in most western civilization as the union of a man and woman for thousands of years. The foundation is religious and many people get upset with changing the meaning of the word itself. The polls supporting civil unions are consistently high in favor.

Regarding "anti-choice"...I know a lot of men who would really not consider it a choice on their part if a child, partially theirs, were aborted and they could do nothing about it.
 
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