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Old 01-16-2007, 05:58 PM   #31
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Originally posted by Irvine511
while i agree, that certificate gives you 1049 tax breaks and a whole bunch of social respect that's otherwise unattainable.

yes, validate me. i am a whore for social validation. maybe i do need to be told that, yes, i'm good enough, i'm smart enough, and gosh darn it, society respects my relationship enough to recognize it.

but then again, what you don't have you don't need it now ... i suppose.
Plus, being married actually can be a rewarding experience. It depends on the people in the marriage.

As many here know, I'm a huge fan of marriage.
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Old 01-16-2007, 06:36 PM   #32
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Old 01-16-2007, 07:02 PM   #33
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i met my husband when i was 18, i had my first baby at 21. I then went back to uni, did my law degree and got into teaching. 20 years later i am still with my husband and still love him X
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Old 01-16-2007, 08:32 PM   #34
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In my Comm & Gender course we looked at a study that wondered which groups of people were most "happy". #1 was married men, #2 was unmarried women.

Yes, I am married, and no I don't regret it or wish I was single. Yes, I do get pissed when people give me looks for not taking my husband's name, or treat me like I'm crazy when I say I'm not interested in having kids for ten years (like that's anyone's business but ours!!), or require me to prove that I am in fact the financial head of household and my husband is a dependent on my insurance policies. It sounds terribly unromantic and cold, but I didn't get married because I felt I needed to be married and be supported by a man. I got married because I've known Phil for years, we've basically lived together previously so we know we get on well, and I'd rather spend life with him than alone or anyone else.

I outright refused to get engaged while I was still in school because I've always felt that the social aspect of college (not partying, but juggling school with work, working more, and finding time for friends and relationships) is just as important as academics. I valued my free time, my privacy, and my independence. I still value these things and still have them, but since I've established who I am, who my friends are, and where I want to go in my life I don't need as much personal space.

Honestly, I've never been scared or felt threatened by these statistics. What goes on between two other people in an intimate relationship is no business of mine and really has no direct bearing on my own relationships.
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Old 01-16-2007, 09:40 PM   #35
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I wonder if this 'trend' is a result of the increase in divorce; in that people generally, will come to realising it's not marriage or any concept of, which is the problem, but the choice of partner they thought they'd settle with initially. I'm going to bet it's a fairly natural reaction to swear off marriage, and even semi-serious relationships after a split, so I wonder in time if people will stop blaming marriage and instead look at our choices? Every happy marriage is proof enough that it can work well and is a good choice - plus we all know married folk live longer. However, I dont know if this means that every unhappy or ended marriage then contrarily means that marriage itself is bad.
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Old 01-16-2007, 09:52 PM   #36
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^ Maybe that, and that divorce is so much more common and less stigmatized. I can't tell you how often I hear my grandparents say something like "so-and-so's husband died, but don't worry, she's better off without him and he's just been making her miserable for years." It wasn't that long ago that people in this country still married for security. One of my relatives' wife died and he simply wrote a letter back to the Netherlands and his church sent him a young new wife. They were together until death. The evolving purpose for marriage seems to be restricting choices for partners. In my grandparents time, as long as one could provide a house and a good job, they'd consider themselves lucky. Now we want our soulmates and someone we'll always be romantically attached to, but we want to keep control over the lives we already had. Also, we pick based on what we want, not what the other person has to offer, so if what we need/want changes, our current partner might no longer be the perfect fit.
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Old 01-16-2007, 09:56 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by Liesje
^ Maybe that, and that divorce is so much more common and less stigmatized. I can't tell you how often I hear my grandparents say something like "so-and-so's husband died, but don't worry, she's better off without him and he's just been making her miserable for years." It wasn't that long ago that people in this country still married for security. One of my relatives' wife died and he simply wrote a letter back to the Netherlands and his church sent him a young new wife. They were together until death. The evolving purpose for marriage seems to be restricting choices for partners. In my grandparents time, as long as one could provide a house and a good job, they'd consider themselves lucky. Now we want our soulmates and someone we'll always be romantically attached to, but we want to keep control over the lives we already had. Also, we pick based on what we want, not what the other person has to offer, so if what we need/want changes, our current partner might no longer be the perfect fit.
I agree.



I buy into the we need to find a partner in crime theory, rather than some soulmate. I do believe in soulmates, I just reckon they're our partners in crime - not some unrealistic idea of what is the perfect partner.
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Old 01-16-2007, 10:05 PM   #38
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I think also, some people know they don't want to get married or they feel they'd be terrible at being married. In the past, these women had to marry because of financial reasons, but these days, they don't and can make that choice easily. None of my female friends my age (27) are married and probably half of them have no interest in getting married.
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Old 01-16-2007, 10:56 PM   #39
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None of my female friends my age (27) are married and probably half of them have no interest in getting married.
Personally, I think it might be healthier to have a higher divorce rate and an increasing prevalence in this type of (positive, IMO) attitude than women getting married and staying married because they fantasize about being married and get married for marriages sake, rather than being attached to their partner. I've seen girls who are so obsessed with getting married that the first guy they date seriously they turn into the perfect husband, all in their heads. Or, they ignore serious problems because they think the other person will change for them. Then they find out the person can't change for them, and that what they thought was a bond with a soulmate is more like puppy love.
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Old 01-16-2007, 11:10 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by Angela Harlem
I buy into the we need to find a partner in crime theory, rather than some soulmate. I do believe in soulmates, I just reckon they're our partners in crime - not some unrealistic idea of what is the perfect partner.


what a fun way to look at it.

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Old 01-17-2007, 10:38 AM   #41
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I'm sure you will find a lot of men who have similar feelings about their marriage too.
Obviously yes, you will. I was referring to the (mostly male) politicians who openly oppose gay marriage.

On an unrelated note, it still seems to be the case that people feel women (and men too of course, but I think the old stereotype that a woman isn't married because no one wants to marry her and not because she doesn't want to still exists-especially if she's "older") should want to get married, and that somehow there's something wrong with you if you don't.

I admire people who are honest with themselves and others and say openly that they don't want to, like George Clooney Seriously, and he's constantly being asked and bothered about that. Why?
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Old 01-17-2007, 11:11 AM   #42
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Seriously, and he's constantly being asked and bothered about that. Why?
Because if he doesn't want to get married, he must be gay.

Not that that's a bad thing.
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Old 01-17-2007, 11:14 AM   #43
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Because if he doesn't want to get married, he must be gay.

Not that that's a bad thing.

ahem. i prefer the term "confirmed bachelor."
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Old 01-17-2007, 11:16 AM   #44
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It wouldn't be a bad thing at all, as long as I can still have my delusional fantasies about him.

But he clearly "dates" and has dated numerous women, unless that's all concocted as part of some elaborate scheme or something...

Oh well, as I predicted I will be marrying George in 07 (even though I have no interest in being married) so it's all moot anyway
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Old 01-17-2007, 11:35 AM   #45
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Well in the case of someone like George Clooney, who regularly tops "Most Desirable Bachelor" "Ideal Fantasy Husband" etc.-type lists, I think it's an obvious question for a certain type of "journalist" to ask...part of the usual voyeuristic interest in stars' personal lives. Maybe a better question is, why do so many women frame their fantasies about him in that context? Why not just find him sexy and leave it at that?

I don't really notice it much in academia, where overall I'd say most have zero curiosity why their coworkers make the personal choices they do, but when I worked retail I noticed men who were over, say, about 35, and seemed to be actively dating or in a relationship, often got "So when you gonna settle down?"-type questions from both male and female coworkers who were friends with them. The idea seemed to be that you're not really grown up, not really a man until you've made that sort of commitment. I don't remember women in comparable situations getting that line of questioning much, but I do remember women of the same age range who didn't seem to be dating or involved tending to get the "poor thing, she must be lonely"-type comments from coworkers (usually behind their back) while men who weren't dating or involved didn't usually evoke that response. The idea being, I guess, that what women want most is romantic interest from a man, so if they don't have it they must be lonely. That's all just anecdotal, maybe the people I've known were atypical somehow, but that's the impression I got.

It seems like it's a little different when people back away from the micro-level and look at broad social trends lifted out of context, though. I don't know if you read any of the comments on that article or not, but the majority of people who found the article disturbing in some way seemed to be applying that "not grown up; not responsible" ("selfish", etc.) line of thinking to women. And very often they mentioned lack of children as a symptom of that--even though the article barely mentioned children, even though 40% of them are born to unmarried women now anyway. I guess worrying about where the future of children's welfare is headed (and the anxiety about shifting relationship patterns that tends to provoke) really only rises to the surface for most people when they're looking at broader trends like that. At least in my experience, children aren't really all that often mentioned in whatever arm-twisting about getting married goes on in more everyday contexts.
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