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Old 02-11-2006, 04:54 AM   #16
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Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars


It says a lot about the intellectual and cultural level of Americans if they generally prefer Miami to New Orleans.

What psuedo-intellectual garabage, if I've ever seen it.
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Old 02-11-2006, 07:35 AM   #17
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Yolland gave an excellent analysis and description of the mindset of America. As mobile and technologically driven as we are (at least for newer, if not always better), we have no great romantic attachment to our cities, our short past, our culture (whatever that is, I often have a tough time defining it for myself). We are all about what is new even though, somewhat contradictory, we are a sentimental, nostalgic country, crying over "Field of Dreams" and remaking the TV of our childhoods. I'd say in many ways, we are a country of unsatisfied souls trying to fill that emptiness and choosing empty ways to do it.

Having lost a sense of greatness, we elevate the mediocre to greatness standards. Technologically, we are still innovative. Of course, everything is obsolete within about 30 seconds. Of course, we have no sense of past. We can't even keep up with the state of the art of the present.

We loved the idea of New Orleans, but we didn't identify with it and perhaps that is why there is no great cry to rebuild it.
Too European? I agree with Yolland that most Americans identify with New York as a uniquely American city (even if it is or because it is a great melting pot).
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Old 02-11-2006, 09:32 AM   #18
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Not enough attention to it, the media moved on to its' next big story. A few people like Anderson Cooper are still trying to keep it in the news.

I have never been to New Orleans, I wish I had been. Of course there are areas of Mississippi and Alabama that are still suffering as well. Because of LaNina resurfacing they say we could have an even worse hurricane season this year, I shudder at that possibility.

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Old 02-11-2006, 11:54 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by BOCAGATOR


Get a clue before posting
You must be from Florida, sunshine

What a sweetie.
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Old 02-11-2006, 12:20 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonosSaint
We loved the idea of New Orleans, but we didn't identify with it and perhaps that is why there is no great cry to rebuild it.
This sentence speaks volumes.

You mean that for most Americans its not worth to rebuild it.

I think the people from NO feel different.

But who am I to judge. Maybe you´re right with "our culture (whatever that is, I often have a tough time defining it for myself)". Maybe New Orleans was a great exception and totally Un-American.

Indeed, without the cultural influences of blues and jazz there would have been no rocknroll. No rock. No U2, for that matter. In New Orleans, in Lousiana, up the Mississippi to Memphis, coming from the Carribean and from Africa, all races merged. Literally, all the colours bleeded into one.

I don´t know why the Americans seem to have no love for the great cultural impact of this city. Maybe the real culture of America is just based on BigMacs, entertainment and the Super Bowl? How is America dealing with its cultural history?

This is the one city where you had free flowing culture. Not sponsored by billions for Guggenheim or whatnot. Not modern art schtick or NY galleries or snobs or sharks.

I see that not only the government aint doing enough,
apparently rebuilding would not even be backed by all Americans. Well if thats your culture GO TO DROWN IN COCA COLA and get deaf from the machines in Vegas instead of enjoying real music . Especially the ones that care more about their next tax cut than about culture. Or the ones that voted for higher gasoline prices.

I say: No.

Without pulling the race card,
this way of dealing with the problem is not ok
and very Anti-American.
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Old 02-11-2006, 12:25 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2DMfan


What psuedo-intellectual garabage, if I've ever seen it.
Ok, maybe I missed something on the way there and Miami created a couple of unique musical styles that would resonate in all the world?

You are free to tell me of the great worldwide impact Miami had on culture. Go ahead!
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Old 02-11-2006, 12:32 PM   #22
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*Jumps over from moral relativity thread to watch it in action...bottled water in hand.
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Old 02-11-2006, 12:46 PM   #23
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Just for clarity's sake, hiphop, I agree with you on this issue. The loss is enormous and I am saddened and often angry that it looks like we are just going to let it go.
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Old 02-11-2006, 01:06 PM   #24
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Oh, well, farewell Bourbon Street.
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Old 02-11-2006, 01:37 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2DMfan
What psuedo-intellectual garabage, if I've ever seen it.
The truth hurts, doesn't it?

NO was "let go" long before Katrina.
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Old 02-11-2006, 01:44 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars

Indeed, without the cultural influences of blues and jazz there would have been no rocknroll. No rock.
No "devil's music".
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Old 02-11-2006, 05:03 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars
You mean that for most Americans its not worth to rebuild it.

I think the people from NO feel different.
Good point. Although many of those who have not returned--and that's most of them--seem to have given up on rebuilding too, sadly.
Quote:
Indeed, without the cultural influences of blues and jazz there would have been no rocknroll. No rock. No U2, for that matter. In New Orleans, in Lousiana, up the Mississippi to Memphis, coming from the Carribean and from Africa, all races merged. Literally, all the colours bleeded into one.

I don´t know why the Americans seem to have no love for the great cultural impact of this city...
You're overstating the connection between blues and the city here. I grew up smack in the middle of Delta country, in BB King's hometown, Robert Johnson's burial place, and a stone's throw from where Mississippi John Hurt, Charley Patton, Howlin' Wolf, Sonny Boy Williamson, Muddy Waters, Son House, and Tommy Johnson made their homes. I love the blues, and take pride in the fact that one of our (few) great native art forms bloomed so strongly on my home turf. But I would never suggest to a visiting blues enthusiast that they go out of their way to see the place. It's still just what it's always been--forlorn huddles of tiny slapdash houses ringed by cotton fields and catfish ponds, with very little excitement going on. This IS what the blues comes from, though--not bustling big cities, not places of high culture. It's first and foremost a music of rural poverty, disenfranchisement ,and *lack* of contact with the cultural mainstream.

And as for "bleeding into one"--what, you mean like Elvis? The Stones? Pffffffftt. White men who made millions off white audiences by capitalizing on the racist myth of the raw, uncontrollably sensuous, poetically tragic black soul, while their inspirations died penniless in Nowheresville with no-one watching. At least BB got a museum out of it.

Now New Orleans, that's another world entirely. And jazz, true, that's much more of an urban artform. But I don't think the case for New Orleans' enormous worth is best made by arguing that it plays an ongoing, indispensable role as generator of "real" American culture (as your scornful references to Coke and casinos--both of which were HUGELY popular in NO, by the way--suggest). It was beautiful because it was unique, and it was unique because of the way it held onto and sustained a glorious historical moment when French, African and Old South cultures came together and melded. That's really just one small chapter in American cultural history--though admittedly an exquisite one.
Quote:
You are free to tell me of the great worldwide impact Miami had on culture. Go ahead!
...and don't be so hard on Miami. That is one VERY young city--it was just a sleepy backwater ringed by sawgrass swamps until the 1920s, and it grew only in fitful booms, punctuated regularly by busts, after that. It's got a great modern art scene, gorgeous botanical gardens, and I think it's quite possible that given some time and luck, its Cuban, Latino, and Afro-Carib communities might fuse with the African- and Euro-American mainstream(s) to yield something very exciting. Perhaps this won't happen. But give it some time.
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Old 02-12-2006, 12:23 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by BOCAGATOR


Get a clue before posting
That sort of rudeness isn't welcome here.

Quote:
Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars



That was inappropriate, regardless of what was said to you.
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Old 02-12-2006, 12:40 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by yolland
You're overstating the connection between blues and the city here. I grew up smack in the middle of Delta country, in BB King's hometown, Robert Johnson's burial place, and a stone's throw from where Mississippi John Hurt, Charley Patton, Howlin' Wolf, Sonny Boy Williamson, Muddy Waters, Son House, and Tommy Johnson made their homes. I love the blues, and take pride in the fact that one of our (few) great native art forms bloomed so strongly on my home turf. But I would never suggest to a visiting blues enthusiast that they go out of their way to see the place. It's still just what it's always been--forlorn huddles of tiny slapdash houses ringed by cotton fields and catfish ponds, with very little excitement going on. This IS what the blues comes from, though--not bustling big cities, not places of high culture. It's first and foremost a music of rural poverty, disenfranchisement ,and *lack* of contact with the cultural mainstream.

And as for "bleeding into one"--what, you mean like Elvis? The Stones? Pffffffftt. White men who made millions off white audiences by capitalizing on the racist myth of the raw, uncontrollably sensuous, poetically tragic black soul, while their inspirations died penniless in Nowheresville with no-one watching. At least BB got a museum out of it.

Now New Orleans, that's another world entirely. And jazz, true, that's much more of an urban artform. But I don't think the case for New Orleans' enormous worth is best made by arguing that it plays an ongoing, indispensable role as generator of "real" American culture (as your scornful references to Coke and casinos--both of which were HUGELY popular in NO, by the way--suggest). It was beautiful because it was unique, and it was unique because of the way it held onto and sustained a glorious historical moment when French, African and Old South cultures came together and melded. That's really just one small chapter in American cultural history--though admittedly an exquisite one.

Now that is a good post. I didn´t go into describing the Blues at length here, but sure I mean the whole region, and sure it took some time for the Blues to move from the chicken barn to the city, and when it did in the 30s up to Chicago and all the wonderful history of the Blues -

we could talk ages about it or create an own thread.

Its also clear that without Blues, no R&B, no rocknroll - btw the term rocknroll was also used by black entertainers before of Elvis, and later on they were suddenly called rhythm and blues..

also, blues artists changed their behavior when they went into the cities. when John Lee Hooker toured Europe in the 60s, promoters wanted him to wear a cotton farmer outfit on stage, instead of the black suits he wore. so, you know,..

we can go from Williamson to Robert Johnson here, and mythologies and haunting and the evil spirit and the greyhound bus where our souls still ride, the Blues souls always moved, they moved and moved from town to town, like now, they also move around.

I´d just love to return and play again.. in the old Ballrooms, and the bars on Frenchmen.
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Old 02-15-2006, 03:33 AM   #30
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Katrina exposed 'passivity' behind disaster preparations, inquiry finds
Last Updated Tue, 14 Feb 2006 22:14:16 EST
CBC News

All levels of government in the United States failed to prepare sufficiently for disasters after the Sept. 11 attacks, leaving the Gulf Coast wide open to hurricane Katrina's devastation, a U.S. legislative inquiry concludes.

A House of Representatives committee investigating the response to Katrina was scheduled to release its final report on Wednesday, but the Associated Press obtained a copy on Tuesday night.

The report also slams authorities for moving too slowly to protect people despite being warned several days before the storm came ashore on Aug. 29, 2005.

The hurricane and its aftermath destroyed large swathes of New Orleans and other communities, killing more than 1,300 people in Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama, and leaving of tens of thousands of others without homes.

"Passivity did the most damage," says the 520-page report, entitled A Failure of Initiative.

"The failure of initiative cost lives, prolonged suffering, and left all Americans justifiably concerned our government is no better prepared to protect its people than it was before 9/11."

The committee was dominated by Republicans and chaired by Representative Tom Davis, a Republican from Virginia.

Bush should have acted sooner, report says

The committee members found problems with disaster preparations at all levels of authority, from local officials all the way to the White House.

They conclude that President George W. Bush could have sped up the response to the crisis by getting involved earlier.

"Earlier presidential involvement might have resulted in a more effective response," the report says.

The committee singles out others for criticism as well, including:

* The head of the Department of Homeland Security, Michael Chertoff, for failing to activate a national plan that would have provided relief quickly.
* Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Blanco and New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin, for delaying too long before ordering a mandatory evacuation – only 19 hours before the storm hit.

Homeland Security faulted on several fronts

A number of government bodies and other agencies drew fire, including the Department of Homeland Security.

The House committee found that federal department – which was created in response to the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001 – had too few emergency response staff. It also found many of them too inexperienced to handle the scale of the disaster.

The report concludes: "The preparation for and response to Hurricane Katrina should disturb all Americans."
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