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Old 12-03-2004, 10:58 AM   #46
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Originally posted by martha
So a Christian can be thrown into the deepest levels of Hell if he's says he's sorry but he really isn't?! That'll be news to some Christians, won't it?
I'm sure all Christians will be surprised by some portion of their beliefs.

I'm sure you can understand the difference between saying and believing. The ideal is that you cannot fool God by what you say if your heart holds something different.
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Old 12-03-2004, 11:29 AM   #47
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Christianity and Krishna may have potential similiarities, but all Religions share the same baisc impetus - Religion is the original way of understanding and making sense of the world around us, adding collective structure to an otherwise individualistic and chaotic individualistic mind. Until the real God showed up, the universal religion - Science. Primitive notions in a modern world are the reason for conflict, such as the Palestinian-Israeli war, and the psychotic terroristic splinters of Islamic Extremism.
Look at the problems of trying to dictate an entire society in the name of some interpreted version of religion, a procrustean ambition that leads to uprising and war in a time when people should be able to tell the difference between fantasy and reality.

- Nicholas
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Old 12-03-2004, 11:29 AM   #48
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Originally posted by martha


So a Christian can be thrown into the deepest levels of Hell if he's says he's sorry but he really isn't?!



3 entries found for truly.

1. Sincerely; genuinely: We are truly sorry for the inconvenience.
2. Truthfully; accurately: reported the matter truly.
3. Indeed: truly ugly.
4. Properly: not truly civilized.
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Old 12-03-2004, 11:30 AM   #49
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P.S. to all you typo-Nazis: 'Similarities'.
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Old 12-03-2004, 11:52 AM   #50
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Hey Martha: Humanism: "belief in the promotion of human interests, intellect and welfare." You were talking about how reincarnation focuses on "advancement". Sounds like a human interest. My point was it's a self-centered faith. If all you're trying to do is advance yourself, what's the point of that? Plus, it led to the caste system. Are you going to tell me that's from a divine source?
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Old 12-03-2004, 11:53 AM   #51
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Humanism sounds like a modern day Hinduism to me. Mankind alone creating a diety that doesn't come from God.
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Old 12-03-2004, 01:18 PM   #52
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Originally posted by Macfistowannabe
Humanism sounds like a modern day Hinduism to me. Mankind alone creating a diety that doesn't come from God.
sounds like most every religion to me.
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Old 12-03-2004, 02:00 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen
Hey Martha: Humanism: "belief in the promotion of human interests, intellect and welfare." You were talking about how reincarnation focuses on "advancement". Sounds like a human interest. My point was it's a self-centered faith. If all you're trying to do is advance yourself, what's the point of that? Plus, it led to the caste system. Are you going to tell me that's from a divine source?
I know only the bare facts of Hinduism (and maybe not even those).

But I don't think "advancement" in Hinduism, or Buddhism (which it bears a slight resemblence to) is at all a negative thing or a human interest. The hope is that you continually lead a better life in the hope that you will one day attain nirvana, which is complete oneness with Krishna.

How is it any different, other than in wordage, than Christianity? Are not Christians always seeking to better themselves in hopes of being reunited with God? We just don't believe in multiple chances. Faith may save you, but you can't go around committing sins. You're forgiven, but it's not a free pass for bad behavior.

All faiths are ultimately self-centered, aren't they? It's about you and your relationship with your chosen Deity, and how you will both benefit from the relationship. (If this comes off as negative, I'm sorry, that's certainly not how I mean it. I'm not denying the power or presence of love in such a relationship.)

While the caste system is far from admirable, Christianity cannot claim better. It has been used to justify slavery, serfdom, sexism, anti-Semitism, genocide, and too many wars to even count. We cannot cast the first stone.
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Old 12-03-2004, 02:22 PM   #54
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When was Krishna's earthly life supposed to have been?
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Old 12-03-2004, 03:35 PM   #55
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Great post AvsGirl. I've heard nirvana is a state of emptiness, not oneness with Krishna. If I'm wrong though, then I'm wrong.
To answer your question, no, Christians aren't always seeking to better themselves in hopes of being reunited with God. We seek to better ourselves in hopes of serving him more, carrying out his will for our lives and being obedient, but our salvation doesn't depend on what we do with our lives other than accepting Christ as our lord and savior. After that point, we do try to live a Christ-like life and follow his commands, but if we slip and screw up, we have forgiveness available to us. (And you're right, forgiveness ISN'T a free pass to sin.) It was set up this way because God knows we're not perfect, so why would he expect us to be? You know? His forgiveness, his grace, allows our sins to be erased in his eyes, as long as we sincerely seek forgiveness. And only he can judge our hearts on that one.
In regards to the caste system, it's an actual part of the Hindu faith, right? Isn't it tied to reincarnation? Nowhere in the Bible are we commanded to use slavery, serfdom, be sexist, committ genocide or be anti-semitic. Does that make sense?
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Old 12-03-2004, 09:26 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by martha


You said EVERYTHING was wrong except for a few things. Then EVERYTHING isn't wrong there, is it?

well translation problems..

most statements are fully wrong
few statements are partially correct..

you can as well say..everything is WRONG...
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Old 12-03-2004, 09:45 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen
HYou were talking about how reincarnation focuses on "advancement". Sounds like a human interest. My point was it's a self-centered faith. If all you're trying to do is advance yourself, what's the point of that? Plus, it led to the caste system. Are you going to tell me that's from a divine source?
It's not self-centred at all. You have a wrong idea of what the faith is about and what karma constitutes. Your actions cannot be seen indepenently in this world, and Hindus believe that atman and brahman are one, and there is the famous story of cracking a fruit with seeds falling out. Individual people are seeds/atman, but they come together to form brahman in a perfect unity. So karma is not about individual advancement, although the end result is either a move up or down in your next rebirth, but karma involves your role and duty (dharma) in the world, and part of that are selfless deeds without any expectation of benefit or return to yourself. Not self-centered in the least.
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Old 12-03-2004, 09:47 PM   #58
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Originally posted by coemgen
Great post AvsGirl. I've heard nirvana is a state of emptiness, not oneness with Krishna.
I think you are confusing Hinduism with Buddhism. The Buddha was often accused by critics to be preaching nihilism, and the reason behind this is that while in Hinduism, the escape from the cycle of rebirth (samsara) is well established and described, The Buddha did not spend much time discussing nirvana. His view was that he was a teacher, that he could show one way of achieving it, but nothing was really said beyond that, so that some critics concentrated on that and said that nirvana = nihilism (or nothingness/emptiness as you put it), when in fact The Buddha's main achievement in life was not to describe the state of liberation, but the path to getting there.
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Old 12-03-2004, 10:14 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally posted by coemgen

In regards to the caste system, it's an actual part of the Hindu faith, right? Isn't it tied to reincarnation? Nowhere in the Bible are we commanded to use slavery, serfdom, be sexist, committ genocide or be anti-semitic. Does that make sense?
Again, I don't know much about Hinduism. But I'm 98% sure that
the caste system was not a part of Hindu faith. It's a social system derived from the belief (and, I would say, a misinterpretation of) reincarnation.

The fact that the caste system is slowly crumbling in urban areas, whereas Hinduism is not, is also proof of that. They aren't dependant on one another.

Of course the Bible doesn't command those things, but it doesn't mean that it hasn't been used to justify such atrocities. That's a sad fact of history.
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