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Old 03-13-2006, 07:21 PM   #61
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Originally posted by Earnie Shavers


From the outside it certainly looks like a complete and total lack of strategy is precisely why the Democrats are so far in the minority.
Lack of strategy, yes, lack of ideas, yes, lack of backbone, yes, lack of quality candidates, yes.

The Republicans are merely defaulting as the choice of the American people in a system that only gives you A or B.

No real choices.
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Old 03-13-2006, 07:29 PM   #62
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I agree with most of your post, but lets not kid ourselves here, that's just not accurate. If you mean by "more recent Presidential elections", the 2000 election by itself, then fine.

1980 Reagan won by 440 electoral votes
1984 Reagan won by 512 electoral votes
1988 Bush won by 315 electoral votes
1992 Clinton won by 202 electoral votes
1996 Clinton won by 220 electoral votes
2000 Bush won by 5 electoral votes
2004 Bush won by 35 electoral votes

in fact 2004 was the 2nd closest electoral college in almost 100 years (1916). Second only to 2000. It's also the 5th closest of all time.

In America, this is how we choose Presidents, forget the popular vote. That's like arguing who had more rushing yards in a football game, the (electoral) scoreboard is all that matters. In terms of the popular vote, 2004 is even the 2nd closest in recent memory as well.

35 electoral vote margin basically means any state with at least 18 electoral votes going to Kerry's side, wins him the election. So, that alone to me, all numbers aside, means it was about as thin of a margin as you could expect. Essentially one large state decided it.
I was refering to the 2000 election. In any event, all that might comfort someone at night, but it does not change the fact that the Republicans have the White House, Senate, and House. Its their policies and agenda's that have been advanced the past 5 years and will likely be continued for the next 3 years.
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Old 03-13-2006, 07:30 PM   #63
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Well, McCain is pro-life, and while he did not win in 2000 against Bush, it was a lot closer than people remember.
Also if the Democrats do well in the fall elections, the Republican Party will be more obsessed in insuring a win in 2008, that benefits McCain because he polls so well in national elections. In fact, the Presidents current troubles in the polls make it more likely the Republicans will pick a candidate in 2008 who is the most electible as opposed to one who agrees with all their views.
Yes, McCain was clearly ahead at one point until he got Roved in South Carolina. He never recovered.

I think both the Dems and Reps are obsessed with winning, so that's really neither here or there, concerning 2006.

I think McCain will need to move right to get the nomination, and his appeal is to the centrist/non-partisans, if you believe there are many of them left. When in fact, he's much more of a conservative than many believe, I think the public just likes his demeanor and his credentials, people don't really know his politics in general, they just know he goes on Leno, Letterman and SNL and everyone seems to like him.

If he doesn't move right, the wingers will tear him a new one, again.

I think the Republicans will defintely choose someone who is electable, but they also have a large base that needs to be appeased, just like the Dems. Kerry was a war vet that made him seemingly electable in a wartime, and yet he is an environmental stalwart, which appeased the lefties. The Reps will likely choose a true conservative, no matter what, they have a pool to choose from, the most electable of all those conservatives will get it. So I revert to what i said earlier, McCain, to win it, needs to move right. Rudy has ZERO chance.
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Old 03-13-2006, 07:30 PM   #64
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Originally posted by U2DMfan


Lack of strategy, yes, lack of ideas, yes, lack of backbone, yes, lack of quality candidates, yes.

The Republicans are merely defaulting as the choice of the American people in a system that only gives you A or B.

No real choices.
But thats nothing new, that is the way the system has always been.
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Old 03-13-2006, 07:45 PM   #65
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Yes, McCain was clearly ahead at one point until he got Roved in South Carolina. He never recovered.

I think both the Dems and Reps are obsessed with winning, so that's really neither here or there, concerning 2006.

I think McCain will need to move right to get the nomination, and his appeal is to the centrist/non-partisans, if you believe there are many of them left. When in fact, he's much more of a conservative than many believe, I think the public just likes his demeanor and his credentials, people don't really know his politics in general, they just know he goes on Leno, Letterman and SNL and everyone seems to like him.

If he doesn't move right, the wingers will tear him a new one, again.

I think the Republicans will defintely choose someone who is electable, but they also have a large base that needs to be appeased, just like the Dems. Kerry was a war vet that made him seemingly electable in a wartime, and yet he is an environmental stalwart, which appeased the lefties. The Reps will likely choose a true conservative, no matter what, they have a pool to choose from, the most electable of all those conservatives will get it. So I revert to what i said earlier, McCain, to win it, needs to move right. Rudy has ZERO chance.
Does McCain really have to move to the right though? He is arguably a bigger supporter of the War than Bush and he is a pro-life Christian although he is not an evangelical. Hell, he just had people write in Bush's name instead of his own in that straw poll they just had.
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Old 03-13-2006, 08:02 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally posted by U2DMfan
When in fact, he's much more of a conservative than many believe, I think the public just likes his demeanor and his credentials, people don't really know his politics in general, they just know he goes on Leno, Letterman and SNL and everyone seems to like him.
I think this is definitely true...I like him a lot, who doesn't. But some of his stances socially are a bit too much for me.
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Old 03-13-2006, 08:03 PM   #67
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I like him a lot, who doesn't.
I don't.

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Old 03-13-2006, 08:09 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally posted by Maoilbheannacht


Does McCain really have to move to the right though? He is arguably a bigger supporter of the War than Bush and he is a pro-life Christian although he is not an evangelical. Hell, he just had people write in Bush's name instead of his own in that straw poll they just had.
McCain has kept off of certain issues in public, unless he's forced to vote in the Senate. Wait until the primaries and POSSIBLY
1-he will be more right than maybe the average moderate thinks he is
2-he will not be socially conservative enough for the right wingers.
I think both issues could effect his candidacy, will he get it?

Well, he seems to be a shoe-in. I'm saying if his social politics are, what I think they are, that it won't be good enough for the right wing. And that some moderates, even left-leaners will get a rude awakening when they find out that he is more conservative than he lets on.

Remember that the base dumped him in favor of Bush in 2000.
Why was this? Was it all because of the Rove sludge machine, or was it because Rove pointed out that this guy "ain't as conservative as you think he is....or want".

The base in the Rep party wants a social conservatism that IMO, McCain will not offer. That's what I'm saying. He's gonna have to go against gay marriage, stem cell research, support prayer inb schools or they will start tearing him apart in the primaries and it might work, again. That's all I'm saying.
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Old 03-13-2006, 08:42 PM   #69
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I don't.

Melon
There goes my theory.

Perhaps I should clarify, the whole Vietnam thing makes it harder for me to vehemently despise him.
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Old 03-13-2006, 08:50 PM   #70
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Dangit I just had a really good point as I was going through this thread...then it left me......



It'll come back to me at 2 in the morning.


George Allen vs. Mark Warner in 2008...that's almost orgasmic A Virginia Democrat's dream
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Old 03-13-2006, 08:53 PM   #71
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What about the recent poll that claimed that Giuliani is the most popular politician in the U.S. now? I thought that was interesting considering that Giuliani is pro-choice on abortion. Abortion is one issue I don't discuss in public it's so hot-button.
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Old 03-13-2006, 11:39 PM   #72
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Originally posted by verte76
What about the recent poll that claimed that Giuliani is the most popular politician in the U.S. now? I thought that was interesting considering that Giuliani is pro-choice on abortion. Abortion is one issue I don't discuss in public it's so hot-button.


and rudy is very pro-gay, one has to be to win in new york. after his wife kicked his ass out, he moved in with, and i quote, "two gay guys and a shi-tzu."

the pics of Rudy at the gay pride parades will kill him dead with the religious fringe of the republican party.
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Old 03-14-2006, 03:22 PM   #73
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and rudy is very pro-gay, one has to be to win in new york. after his wife kicked his ass out, he moved in with, and i quote, "two gay guys and a shi-tzu."

the pics of Rudy at the gay pride parades will kill him dead with the religious fringe of the republican party.
Yeah, I rather like Rudy. I do like the moderate Republicans enough to be able to vote for them to keep the extremists out. It's unfortunate that he has to deal with that damn religious fringe.
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Old 03-21-2006, 08:39 AM   #74
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huffingtonpost.com

I can't believe he makes comments like that, even after all these years I am still taken aback


After getting frustrated at the length of the Q&A session of his speech in Cleveland today, Bush blurted out, "Anybody work here in this town?"

Bush inadvertantly hit upon a subject he otherwise ignored - unemployment in Cleveland. Economic conditions in the city have worsened considerably during Bush's presidency. Some facts:

- 5.8 percent: Cleveland unemployment rate, Jan. 2006

- 4.5 percent: Cleveland unemployment rate, Jan. 2001

- 5.3 percent: Ohio unemployment rate, Jan. 2006

- 4.0 percent: Ohio unemployment rate, Jan. 2001


- 31.3 percent: Cleveland poverty rate, 2003

- 24.3 percent: Cleveland poverty rate, 2001
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Old 03-21-2006, 09:20 AM   #75
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By John Whitesides, Reuters Political Correspondent Thu Mar 16

Deep doubts about the Iraq war and pessimism about America's future have shattered public confidence in President George W. Bush and helped drive his approval ratings to their lowest level ever, pollsters say.

As Bush launched a series of speeches to drum up support for the war, a new round of opinion polls found growing skepticism about Iraq and distrust of Bush. His image declined sharply, with one poll finding "incompetent" to be the most frequent description of his leadership.

Bush's approval rating dipped as low as 33 percent in one recent poll after a string of bad news for the White House, including uproars over a now-dead Arab port deal, a secret eavesdropping program, a series of ethics scandals involving high-profile Republicans and a bungled response to Hurricane Katrina.

The political storm has left Bush's second-term legislative agenda in tatters, threatened Republican control of the U.S. Congress in November's elections and shredded his personal image as an effective leader.

"His strong points as a president were being seen as personally credible, as a strong leader. That has all but disappeared," said Andrew Kohut, director of the Pew Research Center, whose latest independent poll found a dramatic decline in Bush's credibility.

A majority of Americans, 56 percent, believe Bush is "out of touch," the poll found. When asked for a one-word description of Bush, the most frequent response was "incompetent," followed by "good," "idiot" and "liar." In February 2005, the most frequent reply was "honest."

"The transformation from being seen as honest to being seen as incompetent is an extraordinary indicator of how far he has fallen," Kohut said.


Bush's slump is deep enough to put Republican majorities in the Senate and House of Representatives at risk, pollsters said. Democrats must gain 15 House seats and six Senate seats to regain power in each chamber.

"It's not the environment that we want to be running in," Republican pollster David Winston said. "Republicans can still hold the House and the Senate, but it's becoming increasingly more complicated."

In a CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll, 61 percent said the Iraq war would be a very important or the most important issue in deciding their vote for Congress. As the third anniversary of the invasion approaches, they preferred Democrats over Republicans in handling Iraq by 48 to 40 percent.

WAR 'A BIG ISSUE'

"I think it is a big issue," House Republican leader John Boehner of Ohio said. "When the country is at war there is a certain unsettling that occurs with people around the country, as you might expect."

Boehner said the anxiety over Iraq was coloring the public's view on other issues like the economy, which he said is performing well.

"People don't look at the president's handling of the economy very well, and frankly I think it is a result of this anxiety over the fact that we are at war," he said.

A recent CBS poll found 66 percent of the public believed the country was headed down the wrong track, while a Harris Interactive poll put the number at 60 percent.

Views on Iraq and the war on terrorism were equally pessimistic, with 67 percent of respondents in the CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll saying Bush did not have a clear plan for handling Iraq.

Independent pollster Dick Bennett of American Research Group said Bush's failure to acknowledge public anxieties added to his troubles.

"The biggest problem the White House faces is reconnecting with people. People simply aren't buying it anymore," Bennett said. "People can see for themselves that things actually are not fine."

Bush's ratings are still above historical lows recorded since Gallup started presidential polling after World War Two.

The approval ratings for Harry Truman, Jimmy Carter, Richard Nixon and the first George Bush, the current president's father, all dropped into the 20s.
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