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Old 05-25-2008, 10:50 PM   #31
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Well, it's nice we have some discussion going on.
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Old 05-26-2008, 03:24 PM   #32
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there are just too many people living on this planet
well, given the available natural resources there are

since i do think even those 32,000 scientists would agree with this
the question doesn't seem to be whether we are fucking up this planet but whether actually anything can be done
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Old 05-26-2008, 08:06 PM   #33
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Why is it that as I am approaching 40 I am finding that I agree with Deep more and more. HAHA
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Old 05-26-2008, 09:03 PM   #34
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because I have had the benefit of reading thoughtful posters, like yourself

and also, I making just a 'little' more effort in explaining my opinions
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Old 05-27-2008, 08:31 PM   #35
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I'm not one of the 32,000 scientists but al gore should give back his nobel peace prize. Thanks al for alarming all the liberals into believing that global warming is real. Actually...
Sorry to ruin the fun, but an ice age cometh | The Australian the planet is cooling. check it out
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Old 05-27-2008, 08:41 PM   #36
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I'm not one of the 32,000 scientists but al gore should give back his nobel peace prize. Thanks al for alarming all the liberals into believing that global warming is real. Actually...
Sorry to ruin the fun, but an ice age cometh | The Australian the planet is cooling. check it out
If the planet is really cooling, then that is the best news I've heard in a long time and I look forward to the extended winters with lots of snow - but I have my doubts :Pray:
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Old 05-27-2008, 08:46 PM   #37
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If the planet is really cooling, then that is the best news I've heard in a long time and I look forward to the extended winters with lots of snow - but I have my doubts :Pray:
How is that good news? Reduced crop yields, longer transport times, floods and frosts; global cooling is no paradise.
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Old 05-27-2008, 09:04 PM   #38
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How is that good news? Reduced crop yields, longer transport times, floods and frosts; global cooling is no paradise.
Good news for skiers that like snow and are sick of the shortening winters.
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Old 05-27-2008, 10:47 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by tim722 View Post
I'm not one of the 32,000 scientists but al gore should give back his nobel peace prize. Thanks al for alarming all the liberals into believing that global warming is real. Actually...
Sorry to ruin the fun, but an ice age cometh | The Australian the planet is cooling. check it out
It's funny what conservatives consider a "source" these days...

truly pathetic.
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Old 05-27-2008, 10:50 PM   #40
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How is a geophysicist and astronaut being published in a major Australian paper not legitimate? I would give more credit than Al Gore, and a lost less than a peer reviewed article, or a series of rebuttal's to an article.

Your stock standard assumption is presumably that he is some liberty university hack, that really doesn't seem to be the case.

Philip K. Chapman
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Old 05-27-2008, 11:14 PM   #41
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How is a geophysicist and astronaut being published in a major Australian paper not legitimate? I would give more credit than Al Gore, and a lost less than a peer reviewed article, or a series of rebuttal's to an article.

Your stock standard assumption is presumably that he is some liberty university hack, that really doesn't seem to be the case.

Philip K. Chapman
An observance of one year doesn't dismiss something that a whole community of scientist have been talking about for decades. I love how so many believe Al Gore somehow invented it. The article was pretty weak, and to use it as a "source" to deny global warming; even weaker.
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Old 05-27-2008, 11:25 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by tim722 View Post
I'm not one of the 32,000 scientists but al gore should give back his nobel peace prize. Thanks al for alarming all the liberals into believing that global warming is real. Actually...
Sorry to ruin the fun, but an ice age cometh | The Australian the planet is cooling. check it out
I think what bothers me here about your train of thought is that you--and many others--are quick to exchange one set of "dogma," so to say, for another, with absolutely no forethought. Talk about the epitome of intellectual laziness!

I've heard of the sunspot cycles that Philip Chapman mentioned, and, frankly, it has crossed my mind a few times over the last decade or so on questions of global warming. What sets off my alarm(ist) siren right away, though, is his blanket assumption that we're heading into an ice age, based on a single sunspot reading. How does he know which sunspot cycle we're even in? Are we in the standard 11 year cycle (meaning we're due for a standard sunspot minimum right about now)? Are we heading for a minimum in a larger 360 year cycle? Or an even larger 8000-10000 year cycle?

The current evidence doesn't indicate that we're in anything, but a typical 11 year cycle currently, even by NASA's research:



In other words, we're approaching a standard 11 year minimum, and, by 2012, it's predicted that we'll be heading for a potentially even busier maximum than even in the previous 11 year maximum. The low sunspot count that Chapman is fearful of was also noted, according to the graph, in the last cycle minimum in 1996-1997. In fact, it appears that, in late 1996, it was recorded that there was a brief period with no sunspots at all. Our ice age certainly didn't arrive after that, so, while Chapman mentions an interesting, scientifically notable theory regarding global climate and sunspots, it is still not scientifically responsible to start abandoning global warming solutions. The evidence, frankly, is just not there.
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Old 05-29-2008, 09:39 AM   #43
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Phil Chapman isn't a climate scientist. This guy, however, is, and he wrote an article debunking Chapman.

Warming trend has not been reversed | The Australian

I'm not seeing anything on the SoHO website trumpeting a connection between the Sun and the climate, Phil Chapman's claims notwithstanding:

Solar and Heliospheric Observatory Homepage
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Old 05-29-2008, 09:49 PM   #44
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I asked a member of the SoHO science team to respond to the Chapman article. Response as follows:

The Chapman article is full of misstatements, omissions, and errors. He says that SoHO not seeing sunspots is the harbinger of an ice age. This is nonsense.

SoHO is not used to determine the sunspot number because it doesn't have sufficient resolution; ground-based observatories do that.

The sunspot cycle has been shorter than normal for the last three cycles (10.4 years for each cycle) so it seems to be returning to a normal pattern of just over 11 years. The Dalton Minimum was several years longer, not several months.

He claims that the "Earth has cooled by 0.7C in 2007" - odd then, isn't it, that 2007 was reported to be the 5th warmest year on record. In fact we have had 9 of the 10 warmest years in the last decade. It only dropped that amount in January; it recovered for the rest of the year.

What he is actually referring to is that January was an AVERAGELY warm month, being ranked 64th of the last 128 Januaries; this has been way below the average for the last few years where most months have been in the top 20. What he fails to mention is that February, March, and April all were back up in the top 20.

You can find similar errors and misstatements in every single paragraph of the article. Sorry to ruin Chapman's fun. But it's interesting that contrarians have to use these tactics to make their points - probably their only alternative since the actual data don't support their case.
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Old 05-29-2008, 09:54 PM   #45
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Easy now, people are trying to affirm biases and don't need pesky facts getting in the way.
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