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Old 05-20-2008, 04:35 PM   #16
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The proposed limits on greenhouse gases would harm the environment
How does this make any sense?

If what we do doesn't have any impact on the overall sustainability of the planet, then how does the 'what we don't do' have an impact?
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Old 05-20-2008, 04:50 PM   #17
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


How does this make any sense?

If what we do doesn't have any impact on the overall sustainability of the planet, then how does the 'what we don't do' have an impact?
read the cover article in this month's WIRED. It's an interesting expose into how many of the sacred cows of the environmental movement (anti-deforestation, organic farming, hybrid cars, etc.) actually contribute to global warming (if you believe in that sort of thing ) rather than deter it.
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Old 05-20-2008, 05:06 PM   #18
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Originally posted by MaxFisher


read the cover article in this month's WIRED. It's an interesting expose into how many of the sacred cows of the environmental movement (anti-deforestation, organic farming, hybrid cars, etc.) actually contribute to global warming (if you believe in that sort of thing ) rather than deter it.
Oh, I realize that some of our "solutions" aren't really all that much better, but that's not what I was asking...

I'm asking why these 32,000 scientists are contradicting themselves.
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Old 05-20-2008, 05:50 PM   #19
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Originally posted by MaxFisher

your responses have deepened my opinion that alarmist-end-of-the-world-man-made-global warming is semi-faith based for many of its adherents.


both my mother's parents were heavy smokers.

and neither of them died from cancer.
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Old 05-20-2008, 06:08 PM   #20
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Originally posted by Irvine511




both my mother's parents were heavy smokers.

and neither of them died from cancer.
not sure what you're getting at here. no one has denied the strong correlation between cancer and smoking.
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Old 05-20-2008, 06:11 PM   #21
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Originally posted by MaxFisher


no one has denied the strong correlation between cancer and smoking.
Don't be so sure of that... there are quite a few that deny the correlation, some post here.
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Old 05-20-2008, 06:17 PM   #22
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Originally posted by MaxFisher


not sure what you're getting at here. no one has denied the strong correlation between cancer and smoking.
at one time 32,000* scientists did





* or some other industry, pro business, anti-government interference, number of scientists did
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Old 05-20-2008, 06:23 PM   #23
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Originally posted by deep


at one time 32,000* scientists did





* or some other industry, pro business, anti-government interference, number of scientists did
and they were wrong. but that doesn't mean this other group is.
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Old 05-20-2008, 06:36 PM   #24
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MaxFisher,

I'm with you on this one.


Here's the Petition Project Site:
http://www.petitionproject.org/
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Old 05-20-2008, 06:44 PM   #25
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Wow, that website makes this whole thing pretty laughable.

According to this website I would be a "scientist" being that I have a Bachelor in Science.

What a joke...
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Old 05-20-2008, 07:31 PM   #26
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Pat Buchanan is so homophobic that he blames global warming on The AIDS Quilt.
--Dennis Miller
Now that's a joke.
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Old 05-20-2008, 08:58 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by MaxFisher
according to this logic then Al Gore should not be counted as a credible source when it comes to this debate.
Is Al Gore forming original research? Or is he merely playing the role of a journalist; that is, presenting what credible climate science has theorized? I think, by all accounts, it's the latter, rather than the former.

Secondly, if most of these "scientists" are not in the field of climatology or similar scientific disciplines, that's obviously a problem. A "scientist" is not a blanket expert on all disciplines, including ones that they did not study.

(Of course, good luck telling "Dr. Laura" that a Ph.D in physiology--the study of mechanical, biological, and biochemical functions of living organisms--does not mean she's qualified to be a psychologist, but that's another story.)

Finally, as I've stated repeatedly in FYM, a good number of conservatives have rightly realized that the solutions to most leftist concerns about global warming are also solutions to right-wing concerns about national security. That is, a dramatic shift away from oil consumption means that we emit much less carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, solving many concerns about global warming, and it means that we also are far less reliant on unsavory OPEC nations, many of whom have little regard for Western values of freedom, human rights and democracy, and some of whom are (suspected) state sponsors of terrorism. Do we not think that the money we spend every day on oil won't find its way back to the same enemies we are trying to fight against? We're fooling ourselves to think that drilling in ANWR will somehow make us self-sufficient in oil. By every realistic estimate, it will take 20 years for a single drop of oil to ever make it out of there for our consumption, even if all legislative hurdles against oil exploration and drilling there were solved today. By that time, we could have moved onto a different source of fuel.

So rather than wasting time with the usual partisan bickering, let's move forward and kill potentially two concerns simultaneously.
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Old 05-20-2008, 11:04 PM   #28
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Originally posted by melon

Finally, as I've stated repeatedly in FYM, a good number of conservatives have rightly realized that the solutions to most leftist concerns about global warming are also solutions to right-wing concerns about national security. That is, a dramatic shift away from oil consumption means that we emit much less carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, solving many concerns about global warming, and it means that we also are far less reliant on unsavory OPEC nations, many of whom have little regard for Western values of freedom, human rights and democracy, and some of whom are (suspected) state sponsors of terrorism. Do we not think that the money we spend every day on oil won't find its way back to the same enemies we are trying to fight against? We're fooling ourselves to think that drilling in ANWR will somehow make us self-sufficient in oil. By every realistic estimate, it will take 20 years for a single drop of oil to ever make it out of there for our consumption, even if all legislative hurdles against oil exploration and drilling there were solved today. By that time, we could have moved onto a different source of fuel.

So rather than wasting time with the usual partisan bickering, let's move forward and kill potentially two concerns simultaneously.


accurate as this is, it still won't allow us to put troops into harm's way in order to scare up some votes.
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Old 05-21-2008, 01:23 AM   #29
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Originally posted by Irvine511




both my mother's parents were heavy smokers.

and neither of them died from cancer.
This just goes to show how hard it is to conclusively prove any theory. We can have strong evidence, however. In my opinion, it would be pretty stupid to ignore what evidence we do currently have on man-made global warming, even though this evidence is by no means conclusive.
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Old 05-24-2008, 05:42 PM   #30
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The petition website says that only 9000 of those "scientists" have PhDs. They seem to be counting anyone as a scientist who claims to have even a bachelor's degree in science.
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