23 year old American Rachel killed by Israeli Army Bulldozer - Page 4 - U2 Feedback

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Old 03-18-2003, 11:10 AM   #46
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Originally posted by U2Bama
I do think that Sharon has a murderous regime as well; he is not my choice of leader for Israel. I would prefer former PM Ehud Barak or former Foreign Minister Shimon Perez. Sharon's past is bloody (as is Yasser Arafat's), and Sharon is moving in the wrong direction when it comes to peace in his country and at his country's borders. He should withdraw all Israeli troops and settlements out of the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
Very true. It's shocking to look at some of Ariel Sharon's history: in 1982 he was found "indirectly responsible" for massacres at two Palestinian refugee camps. I think the coalition he's assembled now is particularly worrying, containing some of the most extremist parties in Israeli politics, some of whom literally support the removal of all Palestinian people from the West Bank and Gaza Strip - ie they support ethnic cleansing.
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Old 03-18-2003, 01:32 PM   #47
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Maybe I didn't say it well enough - but here is what I was trying to say...

Seattle Times Editorial
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Old 03-18-2003, 04:34 PM   #48
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Originally posted by One Tree Still
Maybe I didn't say it well enough - but here is what I was trying to say...

Seattle Times Editorial
Now, here is what I am trying to say:

When we take a straight look at history, it has all been there before. Here, in Europe, we still remember the kind of Propaganda Goebbels (Hitler´s Propagandaminister) used in order to cloud the mind of the Germans.

When I hear of how the media portray this tragic death, as an "accident" (!), I think of the Germans... do you think Goebbels told them about the atrocities, insane cruelties and executions that were committed?

The death of Rachel Corrie was an execution, nothing else. You want to tell me it was an accident? Come on. Look at the post of her friend, which I have posted somewhere above.

What else do you believe? That at the protests in Genova, this boy got killed accidentially? A policeman would never shoot a protestor accidentially. He could even get a trial for that. They learn very well when to shoot! They recieve the ORDER to do so. Just like the Chinese at Tienanmen recieved the ORDER to kill the protesting students.

A bulldozer driver would never kill a girl because she puts on his nerves, is standing in his way, or whatever. But he just didn´t stop. My guess is that the Israelis wanted to make a cruel example. To show to the protestors: Here, this is what you get when you resist! Limited visibility... yes, I guess you can explain everything. And what about a few palestinians that were killed on the way when the bullbozer destroyed the houses?

To compare situations of people who were actually killed in protests, apart from the media hype surrounding them or the "circumstances" that surrounded the act of killing, take a look at the media.

-----------------------------------
Quotes from the Seattle Times International, link see above:

"But there is a difference between idealism and placing oneself in harm's way."

"But a sole woman cannot stop a towering Caterpillar D-9."

"As this country heads toward war in the region where Corrie died, those who feel a need to get involved should adopt caution and practicality. They should not stand in front of bulldozers."

"Amid the protracted, ugly Israeli-Palestinian conflict, Corrie and her associates showed woeful naďveté to believe they had an unspoken understanding with Israeli troops that would prevent grave injury. There are few understandings in this region that bear up under the weight of war."

"Corrie's death is a cautionary tale of the limits of our ideals."

-------------------------------------

What I like best, is the "cautionary tale". The writer of this article should be well aware of other "cautionary tales": now, History101, here we go:

From http://www.nicole-caspari.de/weisse_...r_e_index.html

"In Summer 1942 - as captivity, hate and lies were a normal condition in Germany - the first leaflet of the "White Rose" has been handed out by Munich students. The "White Rose" was a group of people who called resistance against the dictatorship of Hitler. They had to pay with their lives: In February 1943, they were caught and executed by the Gestapo.
The siblings Hans and Sophie Scholl and their friends could not stop the breakdown of Germany. But they proved to the whole world that in the years from 1933-45 not every German had become a weak-willed slave of Hitler."

-----------------------

Do you think, that after their brutal execution, the Germans cried out "Murder"? No. They weren´t even mentioned big time in German newspapers, it seems. They serve as a symbol for resistance nowadays, but few people know that in the trials against German resistance, there were more than three members who were killed - resistance groups were spread in Germany, and some other protestors were executed as well.

Nowadays, we got media and we got one American girl who protested and was killed.

I urge you to take a look at the similarities between those two cases.


There are clear parallels between resistance groups, even if they were not resisting against the same tyrants.
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Old 03-18-2003, 05:12 PM   #49
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Hiphop,


I see the parallels with some Israeli government actions and the German history. They are no where equal in scale. There were no semi legitimate explanations for the German actions.

One must always be vigilant not to become the thing one despises.

I have thought of these parallels, but have stayed away from posting them. I think that arguments against what is happening to innocent Palestinians can be made without clouding the issue with WWII.
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Old 03-18-2003, 05:23 PM   #50
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there is a lot of specuation about this young girls motives,
well, i think these private emails between a girl and her mom can give an honest insight to her motives and convictions.


Quote:

Feb 27, 2003
(To her mother)

Love you. Really miss you. I have bad nightmares about tanks and bulldozers outside our house and you and me inside. Sometimes the adrenaline acts as an anesthetic for weeks and then in the evening or at night it just hits me again - a little bit of the reality of the situation. I am really scared for the people here. Yesterday, I watched a father lead his two tiny children, holding his hands, out into the sight of tanks and a sniper tower and bulldozers and Jeeps because he thought his house was going to be exploded. Jenny and I stayed in the house with several women and two small babies. It was our mistake in translation that caused him to think it was his house that was being exploded. In fact, the Israeli army was in the process of detonating an explosive in the ground nearby - one that appears to have been planted by Palestinian resistance.

This is in the area where Sunday about 150 men were rounded up and contained outside the settlement with gunfire over their heads and around them, while tanks and bulldozers destroyed 25 greenhouses - the livelihoods for 300 people. The explosive was right in front of the greenhouses - right in the point of entry for tanks that might come back again. I was terrified to think that this man felt it was less of a risk to walk out in view of the tanks with his kids than to stay in his house. I was really scared that they were all going to be shot and I tried to stand between them and the tank. This happens every day, but just this father walking out with his two little kids just looking very sad, just happened to get my attention more at this particular moment, probably because I felt it was our translation problems that made him leave.

I thought a lot about what you said on the phone about Palestinian violence not helping the situation. Sixty thousand workers from Rafah worked in Israel two years ago. Now only 600 can go to Israel for jobs. Of these 600, many have moved, because the three checkpoints between here and Ashkelon (the closest city in Israel) make what used to be a 40-minute drive, now a 12-hour or impassible journey. In addition, what Rafah identified in 1999 as sources of economic growth are all completely destroyed - the Gaza international airport (runways demolished, totally closed); the border for trade with Egypt (now with a giant Israeli sniper tower in the middle of the crossing); access to the ocean (completely cut off in the last two years by a checkpoint and the Gush Katif settlement). The count of homes destroyed in Rafah since the beginning of this intifada is up around 600, by and large people with no connection to the resistance but who happen to live along the border. I think it is maybe official now that Rafah is the poorest place in the world. There used to be a middle class here - recently. We also get reports that in the past, Gazan flower shipments to Europe were delayed for two weeks at the Erez crossing for security inspections. You can imagine the value of two-week-old cut flowers in the European market, so that market dried up. And then the bulldozers come and take out people's vegetable farms and gardens. What is left for people? Tell me if you can think of anything. I can't.

If any of us had our lives and welfare completely strangled, lived with children in a shrinking place where we knew, because of previous experience, that soldiers and tanks and bulldozers could come for us at any moment and destroy all the greenhouses that we had been cultivating for however long, and did this while some of us were beaten and held captive with 149 other people for several hours - do you think we might try to use somewhat violent means to protect whatever fragments remained? I think about this especially when I see orchards and greenhouses and fruit trees destroyed - just years of care and cultivation. I think about you and how long it takes to make things grow and what a labour of love it is. I really think, in a similar situation, most people would defend themselves as best they could. I think Uncle Craig would. I think probably Grandma would. I think I would.

You asked me about non-violent resistance.

When that explosive detonated yesterday it broke all the windows in the family's house. I was in the process of being served tea and playing with the two small babies. I'm having a hard time right now. Just feel sick to my stomach a lot from being doted on all the time, very sweetly, by people who are facing doom. I know that from the United States, it all sounds like hyperbole. Honestly, a lot of the time the sheer kindness of the people here, coupled with the overwhelming evidence of the wilful destruction of their lives, makes it seem unreal to me. I really can't believe that something like this can happen in the world without a bigger outcry about it. It really hurts me, again, like it has hurt me in the past, to witness how awful we can allow the world to be. I felt after talking to you that maybe you didn't completely believe me. I think it's actually good if you don't, because I do believe pretty much above all else in the importance of independent critical thinking. And I also realise that with you I'm much less careful than usual about trying to source every assertion that I make. A lot of the reason for that is I know that you actually do go and do your own research. But it makes me worry about the job I'm doing. All of the situation that I tried to enumerate above - and a lot of other things - constitutes a somewhat gradual - often hidden, but nevertheless massive - removal and destruction of the ability of a particular group of people to survive. This is what I am seeing here. The assassinations, rocket attacks and shooting of children are atrocities - but in focusing on them I'm terrified of missing their context. The vast majority of people here - even if they had the economic means to escape, even if they actually wanted to give up resisting on their land and just leave (which appears to be maybe the less nefarious of Sharon's possible goals), can't leave. Because they can't even get into Israel to apply for visas, and because their destination countries won't let them in (both our country and Arab countries). So I think when all means of survival is cut off in a pen (Gaza) which people can't get out of, I think that qualifies as genocide. Even if they could get out, I think it would still qualify as genocide. Maybe you could look up the definition of genocide according to international law. I don't remember it right now. I'm going to get better at illustrating this, hopefully. I don't like to use those charged words. I think you know this about me. I really value words. I really try to illustrate and let people draw their own conclusions.

Anyway, I'm rambling. Just want to write to my Mom and tell her that I'm witnessing this chronic, insidious genocide and I'm really scared, and questioning my fundamental belief in the goodness of human nature. This has to stop. I think it is a good idea for us all to drop everything and devote our lives to making this stop. I don't think it's an extremist thing to do anymore. I still really want to dance around to Pat Benatar and have boyfriends and make comics for my coworkers. But I also want this to stop. Disbelief and horror is what I feel. Disappointment. I am disappointed that this is the base reality of our world and that we, in fact, participate in it. This is not at all what I asked for when I came into this world. This is not at all what the people here asked for when they came into this world. This is not the world you and Dad wanted me to come into when you decided to have me. This is not what I meant when I looked at Capital Lake and said: "This is the wide world and I'm coming to it." I did not mean that I was coming into a world where I could live a comfortable life and possibly, with no effort at all, exist in complete unawareness of my participation in genocide. More big explosions somewhere in the distance outside.

When I come back from Palestine, I probably will have nightmares and constantly feel guilty for not being here, but I can channel that into more work. Coming here is one of the better things I've ever done. So when I sound crazy, or if the Israeli military should break with their racist tendency not to injure white people, please pin the reason squarely on the fact that I am in the midst of a genocide which I am also indirectly supporting, and for which my government is largely responsible.

I love you and Dad. Sorry for the diatribe. OK, some strange men next to me just gave me some peas, so I need to eat and thank them.

Rachel

February 28 2003


(To her mother)

Thanks, Mom, for your response to my email. It really helps me to get word from you, and from other people who care about me.

After I wrote to you I went incommunicado from the affinity group for about 10 hours which I spent with a family on the front line in Hi Salam - who fixed me dinner - and have cable TV. The two front rooms of their house are unusable because gunshots have been fired through the walls, so the whole family - three kids and two parents - sleep in the parent's bedroom. I sleep on the floor next to the youngest daughter, Iman, and we all shared blankets. I helped the son with his English homework a little, and we all watched Pet Semetery, which is a horrifying movie. I think they all thought it was pretty funny how much trouble I had watching it. Friday is the holiday, and when I woke up they were watching Gummy Bears dubbed into Arabic. So I ate breakfast with them and sat there for a while and just enjoyed being in this big puddle of blankets with this family watching what for me seemed like Saturday morning cartoons. Then I walked some way to B'razil, which is where Nidal and Mansur and Grandmother and Rafat and all the rest of the big family that has really wholeheartedly adopted me live. (The other day, by the way, Grandmother gave me a pantomimed lecture in Arabic that involved a lot of blowing and pointing to her black shawl. I got Nidal to tell her that my mother would appreciate knowing that someone here was giving me a lecture about smoking turning my lungs black.) I met their sister-in-law, who is visiting from Nusserat camp, and played with her small baby.

Nidal's English gets better every day. He's the one who calls me, "My sister". He started teaching Grandmother how to say, "Hello. How are you?" In English. You can always hear the tanks and bulldozers passing by, but all of these people are genuinely cheerful with each other, and with me. When I am with Palestinian friends I tend to be somewhat less horrified than when I am trying to act in a role of human rights observer, documenter, or direct-action resister. They are a good example of how to be in it for the long haul. I know that the situation gets to them - and may ultimately get them - on all kinds of levels, but I am nevertheless amazed at their strength in being able to defend such a large degree of their humanity - laughter, generosity, family-time - against the incredible horror occurring in their lives and against the constant presence of death. I felt much better after this morning. I spent a lot of time writing about the disappointment of discovering, somewhat first-hand, the degree of evil of which we are still capable. I should at least mention that I am also discovering a degree of strength and of basic ability for humans to remain human in the direst of circumstances - which I also haven't seen before. I think the word is dignity. I wish you could meet these people. Maybe, hopefully, someday you will.

Rachel

article with more emails here
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Old 03-18-2003, 05:34 PM   #51
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Deep,

Thanks for sharing those with us. I'm quite moved right now.
What an articulate and caring individual.
I hope this tragedy does bring about more of the world's eye on Sharon's atrocities.
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Old 03-18-2003, 10:25 PM   #52
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Some Perspective Perhaps..

God Bless America,
Mr. Pink

From another Message Board.
"I live in Olympia, home of The Evergreen College, where 23-year-old Rachel Corrie was enrolled. Naturally, the local paper was full of information about yesterday's event. For those of you who may not know, Evergreen is perhaps the most liberal college in America, or if not, just a baby step behind Reed College. It is what Cal Berkeley was during the Haight-Ashbury period. They don't give grades there, it's all pass/fail. It has been a continual source of local embarrassment, since it was built sometime in the 1970's. As an example of the school's agenda, each May 1 (remember May Day, which other communists around the globe used to celebrate) a couple hundred of them march from the campus to various intersections in west Olympia, block traffic, and vandalize small businesses. Last year they blocked the major intersection leading to the one of the local hospitals. I said at the time, if my wife or one of my children needed emergency medical attention, I would gladly see how far into that crowd I could get with my 4 x 4... Many other businessmen in this town felt the same way.


OK sorry but you just made me so deeply angry that I really had to respond to this.
First of all as to the whole Evergreen thing. I just got back this afternoon from visiting my best friend who is a junior at Evergreen. He is a history major there and works his ass off. Yeah they don't give grades there - they don't need to. My friend reads five five hundred page books a week for his French Revolution class this quarter, and composes at least one twenty page paper a week. He also has many presentations that he has to finish each and every week. I go to a very well regaurded private school and my work load is still about two hours less every night. He can carry on some of the most brilliantly informed historical debates with just about anyone who cares to join him - including those who already hold doctorates in the same subject matter.
Secondly, I assume that you don't know this, but Olympia is one of the most liberal cities in the country, and the majority of people within the city LOVE the greeners. They are one of the only reasons that the cultural scene in Oly is so very vibrant. (Olympia was recently voted the "hippest city on the west coast.") I can assure your ignorant friend that were it not for the greeners there would not be so many great places to eat, live music shows, and theaters in the city. It's the greeners who support it.
As to the whole May day this, that is just rediculous. Yeah the communists celebrated May day - you know who else did? JUST ABOUT EVERY EUROPEAN EVER SINCE ABOUT THE EIGHTH CENTURY. Know what a May Pole is? It sure doesn't have anything to do with the communists. Historically May Day has been one of the largest and most widely celebrated holidays ever. Don't try to pull that communists crap in front of a Medieval historian FYI. And besides the May Day parade is also a COMMUNITY ACTIVITY. It isn't just the greeners doing it. Everyone gets involved, little children march dressed up as animals. Clearly your friend is either a raving lunatic, or just has never bothered to talk to anyone about it, or go see it himself. Either that or maybe open a friggen book on the subject for once in his life.
And as to the whole thing about Reed - yeah Reed is liberal as well. Do you have any idea how academically challenging that school is? My sister graduated from there awhile back, she was studying about eight hours a night, and with her research grant for her thesis she was able to identify a protein that becomes apparent in men before the onset of prostate cancer. So are you saying that because her school is liberal her work is somehow awful, or that her school is bad? Shame on you sir, that you would be so shallow.
And where, pray tell, was your charmingly ignorant friend educated? Was it a top twenty college like Reed or top fourty like Evergreen?
And are you trying to say that because she has liberal views that poor girl deserved to die? As hateful as this post was I still don't think you need to die just because your political views differ from mine. You should be ashamed.
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Old 03-18-2003, 10:46 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scarletwine
Deep,

Thanks for sharing those with us. I'm quite moved right now.
What an articulate and caring individual.
I hope this tragedy does bring about more of the world's eye on Sharon's atrocities.


Some of those emails have me in tears right now.
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Old 03-19-2003, 02:06 AM   #54
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well why dint she get out of the way? bulldozers do not move very fast anyways. she knew what she was getting into to begin with she accepted the risks. this was not murder! this was an unnessary accident
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Old 03-19-2003, 02:39 AM   #55
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Originally posted by megadrum2002
well why dint she get out of the way? bulldozers do not move very fast anyways. she knew what she was getting into to begin with she accepted the risks. this was not murder! this was an unnessary accident
Well, why didn't the bulldozer just stop? Bulldozers do not move very fast anyways, so the driver knew what he was getting into to begin with. He still rode on. Looks a very deliberate action to me.

Marty

P.S. Did anyone who saw the photos see the house she was protecting? For more than 20 years many Palestinians have to live in these sheds in refugee camps, etc. It's tragic that they're not allowed to build houses while the Israeli army destroys so many buildings and simultaneously allows the building of settlements in Palestinian territory.
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Old 04-01-2003, 11:03 AM   #56
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Popmartijn:

So it seems to me that Rachel was willing to give her life away for her ideals and was brave enough to die for that and the man who was steering the bulldozer was accepting that he might kill that girl while "doing his job"

Any official statement from the US government yet?

Granting another 10 Billion US dollars seems that they didn't care too much about that so called accident.

Klaus
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Old 04-01-2003, 06:56 PM   #57
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I will remember you, Rachel.
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Old 04-05-2003, 08:41 PM   #58
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not again

In Dschenin a 24 year old american peaceactivist was shot in the face by israeli soldiers It's unsure yet if he will survive.
Another peace activist - a young danish guy was shot in the leg by the same group of israeli soldiers
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Old 04-05-2003, 10:55 PM   #59
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I watched a small portion of Israeli news from yesterday and they are seriously pissed at Powell's statements that the Bush Admin has a plan and no debate will be tolerated (this is their stance with soundbites). I am very afraid that the Bush doctrine of aggression and supplication is growing and even Israel will revolt.

edited to include:
After seeing that broadcast I can see how American supporters of human rights in occupied Palenstine could become targets.
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Old 04-06-2003, 09:17 AM   #60
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I'm sorry, i didn't want to start a new thread, can one of the mods attach these postings to the Rachel thread (FYM/23 year old American Rachel...) ?

thanks,
Klaus
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