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Old 10-10-2016, 04:01 PM   #361
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In either of your first two scenarios, where does the big-business, Wall Street, Bush, Koch wing fit in?

In any case, I think if the GOP wants to win any presidential elections in the future, they need to ditch the 'Christian right' AND the nativists. It's all about demographics. The African-American demographic is already a powerful voting block, the Latino/a population is only going to keep growing, the gay population is more emboldened and open than ever before and the younger generations are far less likely to be swayed by religiously-informed homophobic positions on those issues, and the percentage of people nationally identifying as atheist, agnostic, or unaffiliated is rising, and now combine to make up a quarter of the population, and that could continue to rise and in turn decrease the acceptance of conservative social positions and increase the vitriol of the nativists/trumpists who still support said positions. Oh, and women generally support the party that wants to give them their reproductive rights and equal pay and more(no GOP candidate has won a majority of women since Bush 41 in 1988).

You simply cannot alienate that many demographics and expect to win national elections.
I agree with you that the "demographic" pool for the GOP is getting smaller. But if they hadn't taken their nativist turn, there is a scenario in which a Marco Rubio-type of candidate can appeal to a broader base, including socially conservative latinos. But now, I truly think that boat has sailed with the Trump nativist crowd (which has some overlaps, but not fully, with the socially conservative crowd and the defense hawks). The pieces simply don't fit together in the same coalition anymore, as Paul Ryan is finding day and again.

This is why I referred to the European Christian right as a model. They are significantly more centrist than Republicans, particularly on social issues (as well as on military spending, to be fair). A non-nativist, less socially-conservative, small state, low regulations and low taxes party, I think, would appeal to a larger segment of the population than the current GOP. It would still try to appeal to the nativist right at times - like Sarkozy in France - but it would be a distinct and viable entity. And it would possibly appeal to centrist democrats in places like the rust belt.
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Old 10-10-2016, 04:17 PM   #362
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I agree with you that the "demographic" pool for the GOP is getting smaller. But if they hadn't taken their nativist turn, there is a scenario in which a Marco Rubio-type of candidate can appeal to a broader base, including socially conservative latinos. But now, I truly think that boat has sailed with the Trump nativist crowd (which has some overlaps, but not fully, with the socially conservative crowd and the defense hawks). The pieces simply don't fit together in the same coalition anymore, as Paul Ryan is finding day and again.

This is why I referred to the European Christian right as a model. They are significantly more centrist than Republicans, particularly on social issues (as well as on military spending, to be fair). A non-nativist, less socially-conservative, small state, low regulations and low taxes party, I think, would appeal to a larger segment of the population than the current GOP. It would still try to appeal to the nativist right at times - like Sarkozy in France - but it would be a distinct and viable entity. And it would possibly appeal to centrist democrats in places like the rust belt.
But again I ask, where would the big business wing fit into that? They're all about endless military spending, increasing the size and scope of the intelligence establishment, and choosing security over privacy. They're just as big-government as us progressives, just in very different ways. The small-staters that the party you're describing would appeal to, probably wouldn't like that stuff too much.
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Old 10-10-2016, 04:31 PM   #363
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Athletes responding to the "locker room talk" excuse:

https://www.buzzfeed.com/davidmack/p...wOw#.un6NAAwYw
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Old 10-10-2016, 04:33 PM   #364
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I like Blake Griffin's tweet .

Good response . Yeah, I'm so sick of people saying, "This is just how guys talk." No, not ALL guys. Some actually understand the concept of being a gentleman and treating women with respect.
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Old 10-10-2016, 05:18 PM   #365
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the same people that think all men talk like that are the same people that think all women are easily manipulated into sex with a few backhanded compliments and the right look.

aka mentally deficient scumbags.
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Old 10-10-2016, 05:25 PM   #366
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This is true.
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Old 10-10-2016, 05:35 PM   #367
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Bad day for Trump. His supporters continue to drop like flies.
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Old 10-10-2016, 05:49 PM   #368
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Originally Posted by namkcuR View Post
But again I ask, where would the big business wing fit into that? They're all about endless military spending, increasing the size and scope of the intelligence establishment, and choosing security over privacy. They're just as big-government as us progressives, just in very different ways. The small-staters that the party you're describing would appeal to, probably wouldn't like that stuff too much.
I think you're making a mistake lumping the big business types into their own bucket. I think they're fairly evenly spread between the two that Gump mentioned.,


Any way you slice it, the GOP needs to abandon social conservatism or risk going the way of the Whigs. That and the not so hidden racism of the former Dixiecrats turned Republicans will prevent them from ever taking the presidencey again.
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Old 10-10-2016, 06:00 PM   #369
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But again I ask, where would the big business wing fit into that? They're all about endless military spending, increasing the size and scope of the intelligence establishment, and choosing security over privacy.
I really don't think this is an accurate depiction of big business. Their main interests are profit, wherever it comes from, and minimal regulation or interference (governmental or otherwise) in their affairs. They fit neatly within gump's suggestion of a European Christian right model.

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Athletes responding to the "locker room talk" excuse:

https://www.buzzfeed.com/davidmack/p...wOw#.un6NAAwYw
This is great.

I have not hung out with a single man who talks like this, and if I were around a man who did speak that way I would make clear my disapproval and remove myself from their presence. Every man with whom I have discussed this has echoed the same, including one who used to be a professional athlete. We can't imagine knowing, or choosing to be in the company of, douchebags who would behave in this way or brag about such behaviour.
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Old 10-10-2016, 06:08 PM   #370
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I have not hung out with a single man who talks like this, and if I were around a man who did speak that way I would make clear my disapproval and remove myself from their presence. Every man with whom I have discussed this has echoed the same, including one who used to be a professional athlete. We can't imagine knowing, or choosing to be in the company of, douchebags who would behave in this way or brag about such behaviour.
Which kind of says a lot about whatever men are left on Trump's side.
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Old 10-10-2016, 06:27 PM   #371
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God bless the internet

https://youtu.be/tKTwKTrAR-4
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Old 10-10-2016, 06:29 PM   #372
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People spinning this like Trump "stopped the bleeding" when he rambled like a lunatic for 100 minutes makes no sense to me. He was horrific.
I hear you. I'm seeing an awful lot of talk about Trump winning the debate, breathing new life into the campaign. Which I cannot remotely comprehend, he was borderline insane at times.

I would have liked to have seen Hillary really go the cunt, eviscerate him, the time for niceties is over. But having said that I'm sure that would been spun against her, the ravings of a "hysterical" woman.

[QUOTE=BoMac;8110368]
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Old 10-10-2016, 06:29 PM   #373
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This is from one of our conservative TV shows.

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Old 10-10-2016, 06:41 PM   #374
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I really don't think this is an accurate depiction of big business. Their main interests are profit, wherever it comes from, and minimal regulation or interference (governmental or otherwise) in their affairs. They fit neatly within gump's suggestion of a European Christian right model.
Of course their main interests are profit and lack of regulation, but the candidates - in the U.S. anyway - who have run in favor of those things have very often also espoused the things I mentioned - military spending is never enough, sacrifice of some amount of privacy is worth it to be safer, etc.
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Old 10-10-2016, 06:57 PM   #375
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I hear you. I'm seeing an awful lot of talk about Trump winning the debate, breathing new life into the campaign. Which I cannot remotely comprehend, he was borderline insane at times.



What may have happened (and as best I can summarize from what I've read and seen today) is the best possible thing for Hillary-- he wasn't so bad they the GOP could put a bullet in his brain, and he may have actually given euphoric voice to the nasty Breitbart folks who have wanted to yell "murderous c*nt" in Clinton's face since 1992 (the talk radio base).

What that does is:

1. Ensure he stays in the race, which ...
2. Lashes himself and thereby the GOP to the very Deplorables who loved his performance last night, thus giving us ...
3. A now discredited party at war with itself and now unacceptable to more than 60% of the country.
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