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Old 10-04-2016, 09:37 PM   #811
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Originally Posted by Moonlit_Angel View Post
How so (legit question, I'm just curious)?
As a general rule, US-based reporting on Russia is prone to exaggeration and ridiculousness. Whilst Trump may or may not have some connections to Russia, it's amusing to see the contrast between the involvement of Americans in Russia during the 1990s (and perhaps early-mid 00s when mainstream perspectives towards Putin were comparatively favourable) and now.

Anyway, it's a very long winded thing to get into and wanted to state that overall, it is easy to exaggerate connections with Russia.

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Originally Posted by PhilsFan View Post
Kaine lost this debate. He had so many opportunities and he just is not good at this. Pence barely bothered responding to any questions and is a huge piece of shit and all Kaine wanted to do was rile up anti-Communist nonsense for some reason.
What I find fascinating is how Democrats seem to be more eager to red-bait relative to Republicans.
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Old 10-04-2016, 09:39 PM   #812
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How many people watched this debate and still have no idea about all the horrible things Pence has done/supported during his time as governor?
I already know he is nothing but shite because of the party he represents.
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Old 10-04-2016, 09:39 PM   #813
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Originally Posted by bono_212 View Post
Not sure about that. I amended my post to include a link to a VERY good Reddit post that sums up his time as governor quite nicely. The comment chain after it is also good.
Ooh, I'll take a look at that Reddit. Sounds interesting.

Yeah, I'd heard that about the conversion therapy thing somewhere once, blanking on where. Will do some Googling and see what articles come up on the subject.

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Don't forget the fact that Indiana's lax gun laws are directly increasing access to guns in Chicago, thereby enabling the tragedies on the South Side that republicans like to point to as proof that gun control doesn't work.
Of course! The definition of a vicious cycle.
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Old 10-04-2016, 09:40 PM   #814
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No one. And no one is going to remember any of this tomorrow, save for cable news wanting to frame this to further the illusion of the horse race. Trump will tweet his latest dump and that's all anyone will talk about.
It's not exactly the sign of a great debate performance if your gut reaction is "Well, the VP debate means nothing."
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Old 10-04-2016, 09:42 PM   #815
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Originally Posted by Vlad n U 2 View Post
I already know he is nothing but shite because of the party he represents.
Oh, but he's SO MUCH MORE.
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Old 10-04-2016, 09:43 PM   #816
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What was Kaine's lapel pin?
Almost looked like a Japanese flag.'



 
Perhaps it was a Delta Tau Chi pledge pin?
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Old 10-04-2016, 09:43 PM   #817
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Oh, but he's SO MUCH MORE.
Which level of shit-tier is he?
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Old 10-04-2016, 09:45 PM   #818
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It's not exactly the sign of a great debate performance if your gut reaction is "Well, the VP debate means nothing."


It really doesn't mean much, though. There are two more debates coming that will eclipse this.

But I agree, Kaine wasn't great. Pence, to his audience, was. Already hearing that he's now the 2020 front runner for whatever the GOP becomes.
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Old 10-04-2016, 09:48 PM   #819
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Originally Posted by Vlad n U 2 View Post
Which level of shit-tier is he?
Like, seriously, Donald Trump is reprehensible because of this persona that he's put on, but I couldn't care less about him because I view him as a clown.

Pence has already demonstrated how bad of a governor he is. He's selfish and careless and steps on others to push his own career and agenda. His agenda happens to be socially unconscionable, so basically what I'm saying is, he's among my least favorite human beings alive.
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Old 10-04-2016, 09:51 PM   #820
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Okay, so here's what came up with my Google search.

There's this from Politifact:

True: Mike Pence advocated for 'conversion therapy' | PolitiFact California

Quote:
California Lt. Gov. Gavin Newsom said Indiana Governor and Republican Vice Presidential candidate Mike Pence "advocated for diverting taxpayer dollars to so-called conversion therapy."

Pence’s own words on his campaign website from 2000 make his stance, at least at the time, very clear: "Resources should be directed toward those institutions which provide assistance to those seeking to change their sexual behavior."
and this from Talking Points Memo, which expands on his attitude on LGBT issues in general that bono_212's link touched on:

Four Major Anti-Gay Ideas Mike Pence Floated During His 2000 Campaign

At the same time, however, there is also this op-ed from the Washington Examiner that explains what they believe Pence actually meant by his stance in context (they're not defending it either way, mind, just trying to parse out what exactly they think he's referring to by "changing sexual behavior"):

Newsom is wrong, Pence never advocated subsidizing gay conversion therapy | Washington Examiner

Quote:
Pence is writing about "behaviors" and people "chang[ing] their sexual behavior." This isn't about people changing their sexual orientation. It's not about making gay people straight. It's not about asking gay people to stop being gay.

That's not to say this isn't a big ask, or that Pence is correct that this is a good use of taxpayer funds. But the most straightforward understanding of Pence's suggestion is that he was encouraging celibacy for gay people.
So, yeah, even if that is what Pence is actually advocating instead of actual conversion therapy, it's still pretty shitty/dumb/insulting. Bottom line, he is definitely NOT a friend to the LGBT community by any stretch.

EDIT:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad n U 2 View Post
As a general rule, US-based reporting on Russia is prone to exaggeration and ridiculousness. Whilst Trump may or may not have some connections to Russia, it's amusing to see the contrast between the involvement of Americans in Russia during the 1990s (and perhaps early-mid 00s when mainstream perspectives towards Putin were comparatively favourable) and now.

Anyway, it's a very long winded thing to get into and wanted to state that overall, it is easy to exaggerate connections with Russia.
Gotcha. Thanks for the explanation .

I'll say personally that I have no problem with the U.S. having a positive relationship with Russia in and of itself, and that in foreign dealings sometimes interacting with shitty leaders is sadly inevitable to some degree. My main issue is how the Republicans try and both talk about being tough on Russia, and go on and on about how Obama's this horrible dictator and so forth, while simultaneously being friendly towards and praising an actual dictator. There just seems to be this disconnect between what they say about Russia and how they act towards Russia that I find odd, and Pence sitting there talking about how they're going to get tough on Russia while his presidential running mate is praising Putin all over the place amuses me.
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Old 10-04-2016, 10:52 PM   #821
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What is it that Kaine and Clinton do not get that Putin is a strong leader of his country. He has an approval rating of 82%

Obama and Hillary are weak, and perceived as weak.
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Old 10-04-2016, 11:25 PM   #822
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He also downed a passenger jet, so yknow, swings and roundabouts


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Old 10-04-2016, 11:39 PM   #823
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Tim Kaine was constantly interrupting and talking over the moderator.

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Old 10-04-2016, 11:49 PM   #824
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They both constantly interrupted and talked over her.

I don't think Kaine's job was to win the debate. Kaine's job was to make this about Trump by bringing up Trump's outlandish statements and forcing Pence to defend them, and Kaine was smart enough to spell that out to the audience and also point out that Pence was unable to defend Trump even once.

Sure, Pence came across as more even, measured and calm, but was basically arguing from a position completely separate from Trump's (which is a nice way of saying that he flat out lied about Trump's history and proposed policies for the entirety of the debate).
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Old 10-05-2016, 12:00 AM   #825
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What is it that Kaine and Clinton do not get that Putin is a strong leader of his country. He has an approval rating of 82%

Obama and Hillary are weak, and perceived as weak.
War time situations with blown up patriotism generally do that. Fuck, it even worked for someone as incompetent as Abbott.

It was only four years ago that saw widespread protests from various sectors of politics towards Putin.

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Originally Posted by Moonlit_Angel View Post
Gotcha. Thanks for the explanation .

I'll say personally that I have no problem with the U.S. having a positive relationship with Russia in and of itself, and that in foreign dealings sometimes interacting with shitty leaders is sadly inevitable to some degree. My main issue is how the Republicans try and both talk about being tough on Russia, and go on and on about how Obama's this horrible dictator and so forth, while simultaneously being friendly towards and praising an actual dictator. There just seems to be this disconnect between what they say about Russia and how they act towards Russia that I find odd, and Pence sitting there talking about how they're going to get tough on Russia while his presidential running mate is praising Putin all over the place amuses me.
I can see what you mean. Though I would add I find it very difficult to trust the US state/politicians given how they essentially enabled Yeltsin throughout the 90s in the many shockingly dictatorial things he did, and especially given since Putin is merely a more competent (with a more solid 'image') continuation of him.
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