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Old 09-14-2016, 04:04 PM   #61
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I don't see why any of that makes criticizing the pneumonia thing okay.

What she did -- you or I probably would've done. If you want to criticize her on other talking points, and say she isn't open about things, go on and do that. But you don't get to just lump this in there. This isn't somehow "proof" of your point, if it's normal behavior.
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Old 09-14-2016, 04:10 PM   #62
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It's the lack of transparency that opens up the possibility that they could hide a bigger issue from the public, just as her e-mail response continually changed with the public's growing knowledge of what happened.
But the thing is, she is fairly transparent. Certainly more transparent than Trump, likely more than Stein, Johnson (and also Sanders) too. About her whole life is made public, including tax records, health records, policy records, work schedules, etc.
This was also remarked in an article a few days ago: Trump is secretive, too. Why do we only hear about Clinton’s secrecy?

Only, with about 25 years of being told she is/must be hiding something and spreading some outright lies about her I have the feeling her opponents have succeeded in what they were trying to achieve. No-one is believing Clinton anymore.

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It's just so much work. Making Hillary the nominee is like picking the dog from the shelter with an abundance of issues to deal with...this would have been a lot easier with someone that brings in millions like Bernie or someone safe like Biden. But people are in such a rush to elect a woman. My response? Baby steps.
It's more like that she's likely the best dog you can get from the shelter. Only, you've been told all the time that there are an abundance of issues to deal with. Not that there are many, but you're led to believe that way.
With Bernie, it's a cute old dog, but without any information of the many issues he might have ('But he looks soooo cute!'). Biden is the friendly dog, that unfortunately was hiding in the back for too long until the persons picking up a dog from the shelter were already away.
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Old 09-14-2016, 04:16 PM   #63
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This conversation's making me want to go to a shelter and take home a dog now.
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Old 09-14-2016, 04:16 PM   #64
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I think you're going for a stretch there on Stein and Johnson.

Typically, third party candidates rely on being open and relatable. They're going to be the most out-there candidates known.
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Old 09-14-2016, 04:29 PM   #65
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But if she knew she was terminally ill and had two years to live, would she actually tell us?
There is no way she is egomaniacal enough to take office knowing full well she would die within a year or so.
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Old 09-14-2016, 04:35 PM   #66
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It's more like that she's likely the best dog you can get from the shelter. Only, you've been told all the time that there are an abundance of issues to deal with. Not that there are many, but you're led to believe that way.
Right. So the best Democrat that could have been the nominee and in the most favorable environment ever for Democrats with a high approval rating sitting President, a great economy and a historically massive demographic advantage is the woman who can't even clear 45% in the polling averages? The one who in four-way polling is now merely two points ahead of Donald Trump - the lowest polling Republican since Goldwater?

Not to mention that a great share of the third party vote is in fact a reaction to her candidacy (usually harming her more than Trump in the polls) or that there's at least a few million young Democrats that won't even vote for her according to a recent FiveThirtyEight article.

No, she's absolutely a weak candidate when it comes to campaigning. Historically terrible, in fact, for this party.

And of course it fucking matters. It's all about getting people to the polls and the many down ballot elections and propositions that are occurring across the country. Clinton is muting enthusiasm and could cause millions of those on the left to not even show up. But I guess we should just ignore the ample evidence of how general voters, the public and left-leaning minds feel and act like she's some legendary political figure that everybody secretly loves.

Again, being the nominee does not make you the strongest candidate. I can't begin to understand why people can't wrap their head around that logic.
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Old 09-14-2016, 04:38 PM   #67
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Did you think, in a time like the current one, with the state of current media, that somehow the polarity of red v blue was going to change?

Seriously? It should have, and did, get worse. National polls will be closer than ever I imagine. I still expect the current state of the electoral college and political map to favor democrats. That's ultimately why the term "landslide" gets thrown around.
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Old 09-14-2016, 04:47 PM   #68
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awesome, let's talk some more about bernie sanders and the primaries! we haven't done nearly enough of that here.
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Old 09-14-2016, 04:54 PM   #69
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awesome, let's talk some more about bernie sanders and the primaries! we haven't done nearly enough of that here.

You know he would have slaughtered Trump right? He would have made the blacks stay in at night and quiet as well.

And the messiah never gets sick. We had the perfect candidate and threw it away.


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Old 09-14-2016, 04:58 PM   #70
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The public likes what it doesn't like and they don't like Hillary. Should have went with someone they like more, like anybody else with a (D) in front of their name.

But that's the Democratic establishment for ya. They just don't understand what Americans really want.
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Old 09-14-2016, 05:00 PM   #71
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No, she's absolutely a weak candidate

[...]

Again, being the nominee does not make you the strongest candidate. I can't begin to understand why people can't wrap their head around that logic.
I actually agree with you on this. Clinton is a weak candidate. Though she's the best for the job. It's just that doing the job and getting chosen for the job are two different animals.
I've seen it being argued that campaigning is a very male activity, with all the shouting, the bluster, the showmanship, trying to upend the other. Whereas Clinton's female actions (the listening tours, among others) don't translate well to overall voter enthusiasm (not to mention the 25-year smearing campaign which now lead many to believe she is pure evil). Plus, her campaigning is not as exciting as Trump's.

I think during the primaries the Democratic voters looked more at the contents, at what a Clinton presidency would be like. Whereas in the general campaign it's more like what Clinton looks like right now (as shouted out by Trump). Which is not presenting her in her best light.
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Old 09-14-2016, 05:20 PM   #72
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The public likes what it doesn't like and they don't like Hillary. Should have went with someone they like more, like anybody else with a (D) in front of their name.

But that's the Democratic establishment for ya. They just don't understand what Americans really want.
right, you're the only one who really knows what americans want

narcissist, delusional, closed-minded, sore loser, bigoted (i toned this last one down, for the record)...ya know, for someone who claims to hate labels so much you sure do a bang-up job of making them stick to yourself.
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Old 09-14-2016, 06:37 PM   #73
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I think during the primaries the Democratic voters looked more at the contents, at what a Clinton presidency would be like.
Eh, that's giving too much credit to voters (regardless if they voted for Sanders or Clinton). Most people don't pay much attention to politics or make a choice on some emotional reasoning or a scant bit of knowledge. Case in point, the polling that found that most Clinton supporters couldn't even name a single policy platform.

There's plenty of well informed people and many in this thread that supported Clinton because of her experience and/or policies, that's certainly true. But Clinton really had a built in win from the start between black voters that saw her as an extension of the Obama Presidency and moderate (and sometimes slightly racist) white voters that supported her in 2008.

Clinton has her own issues with generating excitement, but I don't really see that as the problem at all. Being too defensive and inadvertently playing into the image that a large swathe of the public has of you (sometimes based on false smears, sometimes based on the truth) is what has really harmed her candidacy. She won't take a stance on anything risky, she'll go for months without answering media questions, the campaign will try to say that something never happened and then keep changing their statements when more evidence comes out - whether it's her health, e-mails, etc.

And on top of all that, the campaign became exactly what we all feared and what many of us expected given her high unfavorable ratings. It's merely an attack on Trump for being a bad man who says bad things rather than about what Clinton can do for the country. And it's the latter, a positive image for the future like Obama in 2008 that actually gets people to the polls, not a lot of negativity about the other guy. See how well that worked for John Kerry in 2004.
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Old 09-14-2016, 07:28 PM   #74
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A vote for Hillary is a vote for racism.

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Old 09-14-2016, 07:38 PM   #75
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As for the debates it's going to be a farce. Trump will be applauded when he can spell cat, after having been supplied with the letters c and t. Clinton will be lambasted for not being able to solve the Riemann Hypothesis.


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But if she knew she was terminally ill and had two years to live, would she actually tell us? I think we all know the answer is no. It's the lack of transparency that opens up the possibility that they could hide a bigger issue from the public, just as her e-mail response continually changed with the public's growing knowledge of what happened.
But if she knew she was a lizard person, would she actually tell us? I think we all know the answer is no. It's the lack of transparency that opens up the possibility that they could hide her true lizard form from the public, just as her e-mail response continually changed with the public's growing knowledge of what happened.
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