2016 US Presidential Election Thread XIII

[martha]

My dad has a hard enough time explaining voting for Nixon.


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[Moonlit_Angel]

My dad voted for Reagan in 1980. He would sympathize with your dad's regret and embarrassment.

[deep]

Let the record reflect that on the day of the first debate trump was either even in the polls, or even slightly ahead.
when this election moves on and if Clinton does indeed win by a decent margin let us not forget that if it were not for Bernie Sanders pressing her, and all those one on one debates, where she got to get some good practice in, she probably never would've won the election.
So a big thank you to Bernie Sanders if indeed we do have a president Hillary.

[Diemen]

Originally Posted by Axver

I can't even believe we have Trump supporters on this forum. Espousing Trumpist views probably would have got you banned a decade ago, and now this vileness is part of mainstream political discourse?

You're remembering a different FYM than the one I remember. I remember quite a few beliefs that I found vile that were allowed to stand. Some of the most vile were allowed to stand longer than I would've liked, and I'm certainly not claiming that moderation since I came on board has been a marked improvement or anywhere approaching ideal, but there is value in engaging with points of view you disagree with rather than banning them outright.

I will note that the self-proclaimed Trumpers here seem to be awfully quiet when it comes to expressing support for and/or defending his more controversial statements/proposals (of which there are many). Whether that speaks to their reticence to be perceived as racists/bigots/xenophobes/sexists or rather to their tacit acknowledgement that Trump has gone too far in some regards, or something else entirely I can't say, but it is curious that their support doesn't seem to extend to defending his actual stances.

[Axver]

Originally Posted by Diemen

You're remembering a different FYM than the one I remember. I remember quite a few beliefs that I found vile that were allowed to stand. Some of the most vile were allowed to stand longer than I would've liked, and I'm certainly not claiming that moderation since I came on board has been a marked improvement or anywhere approaching ideal, but there is value in engaging with points of view you disagree with rather than banning them outright.

I will note that the self-proclaimed Trumpers here seem to be awfully quiet when it comes to expressing support for and/or defending his more controversial statements/proposals (of which there are many). Whether that speaks to their reticence to be perceived as racists/bigots/xenophobes/sexists or rather to their tacit acknowledgement that Trump has gone too far in some regards, or something else entirely I can't say, but it is curious that their support doesn't seem to extend to defending his actual stances.

I am possibly thinking of other forums I used to post on. Certainly I recall that rampant homophobia was tolerated - both here and elsewhere - in a way that is fortunately now totally unacceptable (a religiously conservative teenage me possibly made some of those unsavoury contributions). But I do find it breathtaking that in general this man's opinions, and those of people aligned closely with him, are permitted airtime and accepted. We've all by now heard some variation of "and all Howard Dean had to do to be discredited was one scream".

Of course I agree with you that there is value in engaging with diverse viewpoints, but not all views are created equally and those of Trump are basically a grab-bag of online comment section trolling. They deserve nothing but censure. I'm more than happy to engage with the viewpoint of somebody who supported, say, Jeb or Kasich - there's going to be some sort of reasoning or logical argument or evidence at play to justify their views and form the basis for a discussion. Trump? It's just shouty grievance politics rooted in fear, suspicion, and hatred. There's no basis for constructive dialogue.

I'm at the end of my tether about this. Frankly, this election campaign is making most people down here nervous. I've lost count of the amount of conversations I've been in where people have asked in hushed tones "you don't think he could possibly win, do you?" And that's a multipartisan fear too. No matter where somebody sits on our political spectrum, we're all profoundly concerned about what's going on in America right now.

[deep]

One should be afraid, afraid of how easily it is to be manipulated be left leaning press that paint either exaggerated or false portraits of people and events that can easily be believed. Do you believe half of the American people belong in a basket of deplorables?

[Diemen]

Originally Posted by deep

Do you believe half of the American people belong in a basket of deplorables?

Speaking of manipulating people with either exaggerated or false portraits of people and events... check your math there, buddy.

[LemonMelon]

Fuckin airports.

Trump gets 90 minutes and he's bitching about our "third world" airports being worse than Qatar's. How out of touch.

[LemonMelon]

I'm concerned that Trump was visibly sick during this debate, frequently sniffling, audibly hoarse.

Can we elect such a sickly man to the highest office in this great land?

Why was he not more transparent about his illness?

What else is he hiding?

[Axver]

Originally Posted by deep

One should be afraid, afraid of how easily it is to be manipulated be left leaning press that paint either exaggerated or false portraits of people and events that can easily be believed. Do you believe half of the American people belong in a basket of deplorables?

My conclusions don't need any skewed press (ha ha, left-leaning, we have barely a shred of that in Australia; Murdoch owns over two-thirds of it and the rest are running to the centre in fear of his influence). Trump's own quotes show him to be everything I said: racist, sexist, misogynistic, no less than borderline fascist, and someone who at least condones if not espouses white supremacism.

So, yes, anybody who supports this man is deplorable, even if that means half of Americans. If they are not racist, etc., they are enabling, condoning, and furthering it. End of story.

[bono_212]

Originally Posted by deep

Let the record reflect that on the day of the first debate trump was either even in the polls, or even slightly ahead.
when this election moves on and if Clinton does indeed win by a decent margin let us not forget that if it were not for Bernie Sanders pressing her, and all those one on one debates, where she got to get some good practice in, she probably never would've won the election.
So a big thank you to Bernie Sanders if indeed we do have a president Hillary.

Thank you to the man for getting the woman elected.

[LuckyNumber7]

So hey peeps, what'd I miss? Live in England yada yada fell asleep before the shit show.

[LemonMelon]

Originally Posted by LuckyNumber7

So hey peeps, what'd I miss? Live in England yada yada fell asleep before the shit show.

Hillary Clinton sums up the first presidential debate in two words: woo, OK.

[GirlsAloudFan]

I think she beat him soundly in the last hour. The first 20 minutes or so were closer, when it felt to me like Trump's strategy of angrily interrupting and attacking actually seemed to put Clinton on the defensive. After that, though, she settled in and kicked his ass. Her response on race I thought was particularly strong compared to his. And she definitely beat him in terms of memorable one liners. The one liners are, for better or worse, something that a lot of people love about these big televised debates.
The "I prepared" line was great.

[phanan]

Originally Posted by Hewson

What I learned:

A. Hillary's book is available to buy at bookstores or perhaps an airport near me.

2. Donald has property everywhere.

Third. We're fucked as a nation regardless of the outcome Nov 8

I don't understand how you truly believe we'd be as fucked with Clinton as president. I understand you don't care for her, but you really think she would be as bad a president as Trump?