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Old 04-21-2016, 07:29 AM   #1
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2016 US Presidential Election Thread - VIII

This thread is secretly a terrible sitcom in the wonderful land of Oz.

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Old 04-21-2016, 07:55 AM   #2
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Old 04-21-2016, 08:04 AM   #3
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Old 04-21-2016, 12:14 PM   #4
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Yeah. The flaming Republican trainwreck is what it is, and no new locomotives have smashed into it for a while.

Meanwhile, the excruciating arguments between the Sanders and Clinton fans here continue to deliver on the laughs/cringes.
I pretty much agree with this completely.
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Old 04-21-2016, 12:22 PM   #5
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You're applying your own personal beliefs and specific opinions into a one size fits all critique. You're so stuck on the narrative. You need to back up, and view it from a broader perspective. The fabric of the democracy that we live in. Polarizing red and blue with an obligation to be on board one of those ships is not what it's about.
Am I? I'm looking at the options: GOP or Democrat. I'm looking at the issues: what the election of either side means in the current political climate. Neither of those things have to do with my personal beliefs. What exactly about this isn't a broad view?
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Old 04-21-2016, 12:41 PM   #6
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Am I? I'm looking at the options: GOP or Democrat. I'm looking at the issues: what the election of either side means in the current political climate. Neither of those things have to do with my personal beliefs. What exactly about this isn't a broad view?

You are. Your statement from the last thread was indicating that the GOP is the enemy. Because, the way you're going about it, there's some obligation to defeat the GOP that everyone must partake in. Yeah, they're pretty shitty. And I'm on board to defeat them at all costs this election. But not everybody agrees, and not everybody cares the same way you or I do. Different people care about different things. That's the beauty of our system. People can support or stand up for whatever they want. Whether or not you think that's a waste is on you. Nobody is obliged to vote alongside you, just as you're not obliged to agree with their voting choices.

Let me ask you this... if everyone has an obligation to vote against the GOP, who is voting for the GOP exactly?

There are more than just two options. There are tons of options. And every vote counts. Every vote for a democrat. Every vote for a republican. Every vote for a libertarian. Every vote for a socialist. Every vote that isn't cast, for the sake of not having someone to vote for.

You're about to become a living example of someone who "throws their vote away." What do you think Bernie Sanders is still doing in the race? What was the purpose of a clear loser in Ron Paul running in 2008 and 2012? There's more to elections than just picking the winner and the loser.

There's nothing broad about thinking that you're limited to two options.
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Old 04-21-2016, 12:51 PM   #7
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You are. Your statement from the last thread was indicating that the GOP is the enemy. Because, the way you're going about it, there's some obligation to defeat the GOP that everyone must partake in. Yeah, they're pretty shitty. And I'm on board to defeat them at all costs this election. But not everybody agrees, and not everybody cares the same way you or I do. Different people care about different things. That's the beauty of our system. People can support or stand up for whatever they want. Whether or not you think that's a waste is on you. Nobody is obliged to vote alongside you, just as you're not obliged to agree with their voting choices.

Let me ask you this... if everyone has an obligation to vote against the GOP, who is voting for the GOP exactly?

There are more than just two options. There are tons of options. And every vote counts. Every vote for a democrat. Every vote for a republican. Every vote for a libertarian. Every vote for a socialist. Every vote that isn't cast, for the sake of not having someone to vote for.

You're about to become a living example of someone who "throws their vote away." What do you think Bernie Sanders is still doing in the race? What was the purpose of a clear loser in Ron Paul running in 2008 and 2012? There's more to elections than just picking the winner and the loser.

There's nothing broad about thinking that you're limited to two options.
1. You're misunderstanding quite a bit of what I am saying. I'm not saying the GOP is everyone's enemy. I'm saying they should be IF the issues I talked about are issues that are important to you.

2. Separately, I am saying (and this is the one aspect of this that is more personal than broad, but I still consider it pretty broad) that IF those issues are not important to you, you're almost definitely coming from a place of privilege in not valuing those issues. And it's not just limited to the two I brought up, but more those in a similar realm.

3. In the general election, I would disagree. We have a winner-take-all system. In many, if not most municipalities, that means it comes down to two choices in most years. In the 2016 presidential election, for example, a vote for any non-Democrat or GOP, or a non-vote, is a vote wasted. I know of a great liberal mind whose writing I respect who is voting for Jill Stein in November. It's an idiotic vote in this particular election.

4. I think that a primary is a more fair arena to make political statements in. One of my votes is going to be for a US Senate candidate who is only polling at 4%. I think he could be back in another race down the road, and I want him to have as much support as possible now to set up that run down the road when it may be more feasible.

5. I'm all for a system that gives us legitimate means for more than two options. But we don't have that right now, and it's not because people like me aren't voting for the most perfect candidate even if they have no chance. It's because of the designs of the electoral college and the framework of our elections. That's what needs to change, not my attitude.
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Old 04-21-2016, 01:09 PM   #8
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And your point 4 illustrates my point. You think it's not an appropriate venue to do so. Others disagree. Especially the disaffected and disinterested.

Sorry for the short and snippy. I've been awake for some two days now. Exams.
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Old 04-21-2016, 02:07 PM   #9
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You don't think the stakes are significantly higher in the general than in the primary?
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Old 04-21-2016, 02:37 PM   #10
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You don't think the stakes are significantly higher in the general than in the primary?

Woah where did I say that?

Of course they're higher. For the two major candidates. That doesn't mean it applies to everyone.
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Old 04-21-2016, 08:29 PM   #11
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For the country, I mean.
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Old 04-22-2016, 09:19 PM   #12
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Old 04-22-2016, 09:23 PM   #13
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Old 04-22-2016, 11:45 PM   #14
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Now, is that the author fucking with Trump supporters, or Trump supporters fucking with the author?
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Old 04-23-2016, 12:30 AM   #15
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Correction: This story has been updated to reflect the real name of a Donald Trump supporter, who had given a false name to a reporter. The Sun regrets the error.


Crowds gather to support, protest Donald Trump on Eastern Shore - Baltimore Sun
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