2016 US Presidential Election Thread - VIII

[Hewson]

She got schlonged there.

First time that happened since Chelsea was conceived.

 

[BigMacPhisto]

Over 4 In 10 Latinos See Clinton Unfavorably


So much for the grand coalition.


"Overall, 60 percent of Hispanic voters said they would vote for Clinton in November, while 23 percent would pick Trump."

Obama had 75% of the Latino vote last time around. Unless you think Clinton would somehow sweep the 17 percent undecided in that poll, she's a step backwards with Latinos compared to him which is pretty mind-blowing given all the crap Trump has said during this election cycle.

Just a truly inferior candidate.

People are also gravely underestimating the border comments Trump makes and how they're viewed with the Latino community. Plenty of Latino citizens in the United States are strongly against illegal immigration and that's the sort of stance that could actually help him significantly with that voting block. Theoretically, he could merely have been pissing off the same Latinos that never would have voted for a Republican nominee in the first place.

 

[BVS]

Over 4 In 10 Latinos See Clinton Unfavorably


So much for the grand coalition.

Do you know how sad and desperate you look; you tout yourself as this true principled progressive yet you're posting a conservative website reporting about another far right news source's poll.

 

[namkcuR]

Blog post making the rounds today written by a disabled former Bernie-or-Buster who switched allegiances to Hillary.

https://shiksappeal.wordpress.com/2016/05/18/berned-by-bernie-sanders/

Does a great job of illustrating the Sanders campaign's inability and/or unwillingness to speak to specific groups/demographics.

 

[BigMacPhisto]

Do you know how sad and desperate you look; you tout yourself as this true principled progressive yet you're posting a conservative website reporting about another far right news source's poll.

What am I desperate about? Sanders already lost. It's over.

And Fox News polling might have its inherent biases, but a poll is a poll. They asked Latinos and those were the results. Meanwhile, that same poll's favorability rating for Obama is about dead on where you would expect it to be given the percentage of the Latino vote he got in 2012. Quit acting like there's a right-wing conspiracy with everything. People just don't like Clinton. And as someone who stands outside the Democratic bubble, I can actually take a look in at things and come to reasonable conclusions.

 

[Bluer White]

First time that happened since Chelsea was conceived.

Some of the phrases Trump drops in campaign stops, like that one.....I try to imagine him using in candid talk with foreign heads of state. Especially the ones who use translators. Say what ???

 

[BigMacPhisto]

There's no getting around that Trump is some idiot savant when it comes to these political labels. Lyin' Ted Cruz. Little Marco Rubio. Jeb Bush being "low energy"...there's nobody in the political sphere that denies that they're absolute genius.

Now, the thought of our future world leader being some guy who comes up with this crap and has his secretaries type it up on Twitter for him? Yeah...guess we can only pray that Clinton gets it together and starts winning people over with sound policy and being personable. Lord knows she has failed at that immensely so far with the general electorate.

In the meantime, I'll do whatever I can to try and get Gary Johnson and Jill Stein into the debates. Partially for democracy and partially so the latter can make Clinton actually earn her votes. Lord knows all she's done so far is bleed support, leaving only the party faithful (members of the Democratic bubble) to stand behind her.

 

[Irvine511]

That sounds helpful. Thanks!

 

[BEAL]

Blog post making the rounds today written by a disabled former Bernie-or-Buster who switched allegiances to Hillary.

https://shiksappeal.wordpress.com/2016/05/18/berned-by-bernie-sanders/

Does a great job of illustrating the Sanders campaign's inability and/or unwillingness to speak to specific groups/demographics.

Thank you for sharing this. It reflects a lot of what us in here have felt about Sanders. I think at one point most of us on the liberal side were excited about Sanders, and with more time and research, he's turned out to be a bit of a one trick pony.

From the article:

"His speeches never change for a reason. It isn’t because, as his supporters allege, he’s authentic and always on the right side of things. It’s because he doesn’t care to adapt, to research issues other than income inequality and the environment, follow up on his lofty ideas with solid policy initiatives or to make any compromises to achieve his goals. Rather, he just plays the blame game, pointing out everything that’s wrong with this country and proposing no specific plans to achieve his goals. He prides himself on being so honest and trustworthy while lying to the electorate about his concern for our well being and Hillary’s lack thereof. In reality, I see now that he doesn’t care about anyone’s well being but his own ability to rise to power.

What’s worse is that he is riling up his base to believe that the system is rigged, corrupt and rife with election fraud, based on theories grounded in conspiracy rather than fact. He’s excusing their violence and death threats on constituents’ frustration, rather than explicitly denouncing such vile behavior. The super delegates are voting for Hillary, and some are starting to shift support from Bernie to Hillary, which I suspect will continue to occur, because they are experienced policy makers who recognize that Bernie has proposed no actual comprehensive policies to achieve his goals. They realize that, in the year he’s been running for President, he hasn’t created one single concrete plan. Super delegates are in place to prevent dangerous politicians, like Trump, from achieving power when they don’t have the capabilities to effectively use that power and, thus, make things much worse in the end."

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

Clintonistas. Outnumbered on the internet and not in tune to the future of the party. I wish you all weren't so in love with big banking, fracking and racism (superpredators, 08 campaign, Goldwater girl) and could see the real problems in this society and just how we need to change them.

Can you PLEASE friggin' stop with this sort of speech, for cripes' sakes?

Everyone here agrees that those things are bad/problematic and that Clinton has made some crappy moves in her campaigns. Including those that support her. Okay? Let it go now.

Maybe instead of making a whole bunch of assumptions about why people are supporting Clinton, you could, I dunno, try actually listening to their reasoning?

I want to stop Trump so bad from winning in November and it's people like you that have left us with such a terrible Democratic candidate. You really don't care about winning or helping the party and just want to sabotage everything to elect somebody whose name you recognize despite her persistent shortcomings. At least we will all know who to blame when her scandals come back to bite her in the ass in November, harming the party down ticket and potentially costing the left the Presidency.

Again, that's a whoooooooooole lotta assumptions being made about her supporters.

Sanders and Clinton were pretty much the only two options we got for the main party. And everyone, even Sanders supporters, in this thread have pretty much agreed that he's not going to win the general election at this point. So why the hell are you getting so bent out of shape at the fact that people here will naturally will turn their support to Clinton as a result of that fact? None of us liberals/Democrats are going to be voting for a Republican, after all, and sure, we could write in a random name on our ballot, but most of us have no plans to do that, and nobody seems interested in staying home and not voting, either, so...Clinton it is. Process of elimination.

I think all of us have made it pretty damn clear that Clinton isn't the most perfect Democratic candidate we could get. Nobody is arguing that. But right now, since Sanders doesn't have a chance at winning, and since the Republican option is terrifying, we're going to go with the best remaining option. And I think all of us are pretty well committed to doing our part to make sure she supports the sorts of issues we want her to support, both before the election AND after, presuming she wins.

Besides, it seems Clinton couldn't win either way with some people here. If she doesn't support this issue or that right now, then she's not really caring about what the left wants. But if she does, then it's, "oh, NOW she suddenly cares about this issue? She seemed to have quite the different view x years ago." Even if she does come out now and show support for better pay wages or trans issues or gay rights or whatnot, some people on the left are still going to question her sincerity and commitment. So what exactly does she need to do to prove she's truly "genuine" enough on the issues for you?

As for the scandals, well, she won't be the first politician with them, nor will she be the last, so I guess we'll just continue to deal with that where possible. Anyone who votes for Trump because they think Clinton's too scandal-ridden is an idiot, anyway, 'cause lord knows that guy's not exactly a bastion of honesty and up-and-up dealings, either.

 

[BVS]

but a poll is a poll.

No sir, you not only live outside the Democratic bubble but outside the bubble of reality.

No one honestly believes this.


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[Oregoropa]

Crooked Hillary


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[Irvine511]

Crooked Hillary


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Honest Donald

 

[DaveC]

This is a truly horrific post.

1) Your first line says Bernie should do more to help people down ticket. Um, so what does that entail exactly? I'm all ears.

2) Your second line is just friggin' ridiculous because Clinton is faced with the exact same dilemma. I'm absolutely bewildered by people believing that her being President will somehow make Republicans suddenly reach across the aisle and pass left-leaning legislation. Have you been asleep these last seven years?

3) Clinton has been doing fundraising where the DNC pays her money and gives her a share for her Presidential run. It does not solely benefit members of her own party. And of course Sanders is supporting all sorts of Democrats in November and wants them to win. Give me evidence where he has said otherwise.


Clintonistas. Outnumbered on the internet and not in tune to the future of the party. I wish you all weren't so in love with big banking, fracking and racism (superpredators, 08 campaign, Goldwater girl) and could see the real problems in this society and just how we need to change them. I want to stop Trump so bad from winning in November and it's people like you that have left us with such a terrible Democratic candidate. You really don't care about winning or helping the party and just want to sabotage everything to elect somebody whose name you recognize despite her persistent shortcomings. At least we will all know who to blame when her scandals come back to bite her in the ass in November, harming the party down ticket and potentially costing the left the Presidency.

could you possibly be any more condescending to everyone?

you sound like a very unpleasant person to be around.

 

[BigMacPhisto]

I'm sorry if my objective, non-partisan view of reality gets in the way of the Democratic bubble. Its party members have a lot of trouble seeing what the general electorate actually wants because they don't care to open up their ears.

 

[BigMacPhisto]

So what exactly does she need to do to prove she's truly "genuine" enough on the issues for you?

1) Apologize to every single American family that has lost a member thanks to her Iraq War vote.

2) Recuse herself from running for President due to a conflict of interest between her love of power and her love of money (see paid corporate speeches and Clinton Fund earning money from wealthy foreign nationals benefiting from state department work).


At that point, I will realize that she truly cares about use and she will have earned my respect.

 

[BigMacPhisto]

could you possibly be any more condescending to everyone?

you sound like a very unpleasant person to be around.

I'm sorry if things can get a little heated. I'm just very anti-fracking because it clearly fucks over the environment immensely and I just can't let our planet's future be burdened by such a process. I know I'm offending all of the pro-frackers in this thread with my position, but unlike Clinton, I do actually care.

 

[Irvine511]

1) Apologize to every single American family that has lost a member thanks to her Iraq War vote.

2) Recuse herself from running for President due to a conflict of interest between her love of power and her love of money (see paid corporate speeches and Clinton Fund earning money from wealthy foreign nationals benefiting from state department work).


At that point, I will realize that she truly cares about use and she will have earned my respect.

3) ice cream for breakfast

4) give me a pony

 

[LuckyNumber7]

2) Recuse herself from running for President due to a conflict of interest between her love of power and her love of money (see paid corporate speeches and Clinton Fund earning money from wealthy foreign nationals benefiting from state department work).

Cmon man. Be realistic in your demands.

 

[BigMacPhisto]

3) ice cream for breakfast

4) give me a pony

So, Clinton shouldn't apologize for her Iraq War vote? There's nothing wrong with it?

It's also just a coincidence that Clinton's charity fund would receive significant payments around the exact same time the state department would sign deals that benefited these same individuals economically? It must just be pure right-wing propaganda?

But I respect opinions of everyone in this thread. Some of you think Iraq was a great idea, so be it. Me, I'm not a partisan so I don't go along with people like her and John Kerry voting for that authorization because I think it's morally wrong.

 

[BigMacPhisto]

Cmon man. Be realistic in your demands.

It's a demand for her to earn my respect, not my vote. She will never earn my vote, nor could anybody that voted for the war in Iraq. I actually have principles.

Now, Democrats can certainly earn my vote although I usually just leave the ballot blank if there's no third party option (mostly to protest the awful Top Two system which is loathed by all the parties for their own reasons). Bernie Sanders was very good at getting votes from people like me, but he's no longer an option. Effectively, by nominating Clinton, they've shut the door on millions of us. But hey, the hardcore members of the Democratic Party have spoken and only have themselves to blame in November. Next time, they can try to widen the tent and be more open to viewpoints besides the one of somebody they've preordained for the Presidency years prior.

 

[Irvine511]

So, Clinton shouldn't apologize for her Iraq War vote? There's nothing wrong with it?



It's also just a coincidence that Clinton's charity fund would receive significant payments around the exact same time the state department would sign deals that benefited these same individuals economically? It must just be pure right-wing propaganda?



But I respect opinions of everyone in this thread. Some of you think Iraq was a great idea, so be it. Me, I'm not a partisan so I don't go along with people like her and John Kerry voting for that authorization because I think it's morally wrong.

I think you're a partisan. You're about you.

Don't talk to me in sanctimonious terms about the Iraq War. It was lived out on this board and you can go back and read my long history of opposition and written combat with those who actually did support the war. I also marched in the streets. I was pro Obama initially because of his vote against the war.

You know what else? I'm an adult. I understand that a single vote isn't a foreign policy. The world is complicated. History is messy.

 

[Bluer White]

2) Recuse herself from running for President due to a conflict of interest between her love of power and her love of money (see paid corporate speeches and Clinton Fund earning money from wealthy foreign nationals benefiting from state department work).

Look up the "Clinton Cash" book on Amazon. Good read for ya.

 

[BigMacPhisto]

I was actually going to mention that book in here because of that, mostly because there's a film coming out. It was written by a right-winger, but the facts actually check out and the book itself has received strong praise from places like the New York Times (which themselves also investigated the Clinton Fund receiving money via the Russian uranium deal thanks to this writer's research) and Lawrence Lessig, who went so far as to say that "on any fair reading, the pattern of behavior that Schweizer has charged is corruption."

We will see how this all plays out as the movie is surely going to grab a lot of eyeballs and press attention in the next few months. Obviously, the book's author has his own agenda, but facts are facts, it's up to the individual to draw their own conclusions from all of this.

This was what the bigger potential scandal lurking in the e-mails was alluding to...whether or not they now had information directly connecting the fund receiving money at the same time that these deals were being mapped out.

 

[BVS]

I'm sorry if my objective, non-partisan view of reality gets in the way of the Democratic bubble. Its party members have a lot of trouble seeing what the general electorate actually wants because they don't care to open up their ears.

you're on a role today.

You're the most partisan poster FYM has seen in years. And you're far from objective m, you're a groupthinker, there is objectively in groupthink.


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[Bluer White]

You know what else? I'm an adult. I understand that a single vote isn't a foreign policy. The world is complicated. History is messy.

Mrs. Clinton has certainly 'evolved' since her time as New York senator. Hot social issues, big trade deals, foreign policy positions. Messy.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

God I hate BernieBros

 

[Irvine511]

Mrs. Clinton has certainly 'evolved' since her time as New York senator. Hot social issues, big trade deals, foreign policy positions. Messy.

Indeed. So has our president. Do you long for the days of GW Bush, the man who believes on Wednesday what he believed on Monday no matter what happened on Tuesday? Has anyone evolved more in the past few months -- or minutes -- as Donald J Trump?

On a more serious note, political expediency is a part of life. It's how egregious it is that matters.

 

[PhilsFan]

1) Apologize to every single American family that has lost a member thanks to her Iraq War vote.

So you care about soldiers right up until they come home and develop alcoholism, in which case they should be allowed to drink themselves to death.

 

[PhilsFan]

Demos firing Matt Bruenig is such bullshit. Clinton's Twitter supporters are openly just gunning for the jobs of anyone who stands up to her supporters. He called someone a "scumbag" for being hypocritical on the issue of welfare, so he needs to be fired (a week before his child is due to be born) because civility above all else! The last thing we want to do is being impolite to entrenched Democrat power players.

It's very important to remember that A LOT of the supposed bad behavior on the side of Sanders supporters is totally made up. High profile articles based on two Facebook comments, people doing shit like throwing chairs when that never happened. Every article seems to have something.

Sanders himself is bothering me more and more for certain aspects of his approach, but Clinton supporters (IN MY EXPERIENCE) are a hundred times worse than Sanders supporters. Tom Watson, Joan Walsh, Jonathan Chait, Sady Doyle ... they're doing way worse than anyone I've seen on the Sanders side.

To summarize:

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