2016 US Presidential Election Thread - VIII - Page 64 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 05-20-2016, 01:27 PM   #946
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
womanfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: moons of Zooropa
Posts: 4,181
Local Time: 10:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BEAL View Post
This is one of the many frustrating aspects of the Bernie campaign. He's done next to nothing to help gather the support needed down the ticket.

The ONLY way he would get any of his proposals through is to have a D majority in both houses.

Clinton has been on the trail campaigning for those in her party. Maybe I've missed it, but Bernie hasn't.

Add that to him SAYING - I will do everything in my power to make sure Donald Trump does not get into the White House. Yet, look at the behavior right now. I would say it's anything but helping keep Trump from the white house.

Lots of talk. No action.
__________________

__________________
womanfish is offline  
Old 05-20-2016, 01:31 PM   #947
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,662
Local Time: 04:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMacPhisto View Post
What is there to remember by it? Obama handily trounced McCain and won the Presidency.

:facepalm:

But he had to fend off the term from the left and right.

The American left is not as far left as you'd like to believe. You're purposely obtuse at times and very isolated from reality, which I guess is needed to have your perspective, but you said you deal in facts. SO I ask again, where's your evidence that a majority would say "so what"?


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference
__________________

__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 05-20-2016, 01:50 PM   #948
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,662
Local Time: 04:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMacPhisto View Post

2) Sanders doesn't have "shaky support" with minorities. They're just voting for Clinton for their own reasons - a lot of it being name recognition. Again, his favorability within the party is practically hitting the ceiling. Minorities would have no problem voting for the guy if he where the Democratic nominee.


So they wouldn't be the assholes that some Sander's supporters are being by saying "give me something" or I'll stay home?

Interesting


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 05-20-2016, 02:00 PM   #949
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
BigMacPhisto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 6,252
Local Time: 05:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
do you have evidence for this? evidence that these are people who would not vote if not for Bernie? what are those numbers? how do we know they are in the middle? if there are so many, why is he so far behind? much farther behind that HRC ever was in 2008.
Do you not even have a basic understanding of the math? Sanders has drawn millions of votes, some of those millions are not Democrats and many of them don't plan on supporting Clinton (or really, voting at all if she's the nominee), hence why the polls between her and Trump have closed a bit and Nate Silver even did an article on this fairly recently (check out the one I posted in here yesterday, I believe). Just because Sanders has lost doesn't mean he isn't drawing people into the fold.

Nearly 90% of Clinton's voters in the campaign so far (I think it was along the lines of 87% in the infographic I saw) are Democratic party diehards. They are voting for the D in November no matter what.
__________________
BigMacPhisto is offline  
Old 05-20-2016, 02:01 PM   #950
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
BigMacPhisto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 6,252
Local Time: 05:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BVS View Post
So they wouldn't be the assholes that some Sander's supporters are being by saying "give me something" or I'll stay home?

Interesting
Yeah, it's called complacency. Of course the more politically active people are always going to demand more than those that feel Democracy starts and ends with a vote in November.
__________________
BigMacPhisto is offline  
Old 05-20-2016, 02:03 PM   #951
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,475
Local Time: 05:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMacPhisto View Post
Do you not even have a basic understanding of the math? Sanders has drawn millions of votes, some of those millions are not Democrats and many of them don't plan on supporting Clinton (or really, voting at all if she's the nominee), hence why the polls between her and Trump have closed a bit and Nate Silver even did an article on this fairly recently (check out the one I posted in here yesterday, I believe). Just because Sanders has lost doesn't mean he isn't drawing people into the fold.

Nearly 90% of Clinton's voters in the campaign so far (I think it was along the lines of 87% in the infographic I saw) are Democratic party diehards. They are voting for the D in November no matter what.

where is this information you keep referencing? it has nothing to do with math and everything to do with words you keep presenting as facts. i'm looking for information beyond your say-so. you were dead wrong about "Sanders does better in open primaries and therefore the entire primary should be open in all states. or caucuses." how can we be sure you're correctly understanding this information?

seems like it's an even grimmer picture for Sanders than i initially thought. if all these millions and millions of people who are not Democrats and won't vote in November are awakening from their political slumber and turning out for him in massive numbers and he's still 3 million votes behind, that makes me really worried for him in November.
__________________
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 05-20-2016, 02:08 PM   #952
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
BigMacPhisto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 6,252
Local Time: 05:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BEAL View Post
This is one of the many frustrating aspects of the Bernie campaign. He's done next to nothing to help gather the support needed down the ticket.

The ONLY way he would get any of his proposals through is to have a D majority in both houses.

Clinton has been on the trail campaigning for those in her party. Maybe I've missed it, but Bernie hasn't.

This is a truly horrific post.


1) Your first line says Bernie should do more to help people down ticket. Um, so what does that entail exactly? I'm all ears.

2) Your second line is just friggin' ridiculous because Clinton is faced with the exact same dilemma. I'm absolutely bewildered by people believing that her being President will somehow make Republicans suddenly reach across the aisle and pass left-leaning legislation. Have you been asleep these last seven years?

3) Clinton has been doing fundraising where the DNC pays her money and gives her a share for her Presidential run. It does not solely benefit members of her own party. And of course Sanders is supporting all sorts of Democrats in November and wants them to win. Give me evidence where he has said otherwise.


Clintonistas. Outnumbered on the internet and not in tune to the future of the party. I wish you all weren't so in love with big banking, fracking and racism (superpredators, 08 campaign, Goldwater girl) and could see the real problems in this society and just how we need to change them. I want to stop Trump so bad from winning in November and it's people like you that have left us with such a terrible Democratic candidate. You really don't care about winning or helping the party and just want to sabotage everything to elect somebody whose name you recognize despite her persistent shortcomings. At least we will all know who to blame when her scandals come back to bite her in the ass in November, harming the party down ticket and potentially costing the left the Presidency.
__________________
BigMacPhisto is offline  
Old 05-20-2016, 02:12 PM   #953
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
BigMacPhisto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 6,252
Local Time: 05:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by womanfish View Post
Add that to him SAYING - I will do everything in my power to make sure Donald Trump does not get into the White House. Yet, look at the behavior right now. I would say it's anything but helping keep Trump from the white house.

Lots of talk. No action.
And what action are you supposed to take in politics which is literally all talking aside from writing legislation. Is he supposed to go club Trump on the head? Is he supposed to bow down in defeat in front of Clinton, kiss her feet and declare her the Queen of Progressives?

Again, Clinton is the nominee. Her race to lose. She's to blame. End of. Nobody should be bending over backwards to suit her needs because she's such an inferior candidate. If she can't close the deal in November, that's on her. The history books will give the reasons as to why Clinton failed and it certainly won't be because Bernie friggin' Sanders decided to get a handful of concessions at the convention. If she can't withstand something like that, how can she be an effective leader when it comes to foreign policy for example?
__________________
BigMacPhisto is offline  
Old 05-20-2016, 02:14 PM   #954
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,475
Local Time: 05:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMacPhisto View Post
Clintonistas. Outnumbered on the internet and not in tune to the future of the party. I wish you all weren't so in love with big banking, fracking and racism (superpredators, 08 campaign, Goldwater girl) and could see the real problems in this society and just how we need to change them.


here it is.
__________________
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 05-20-2016, 02:23 PM   #955
Refugee
 
Bluer White's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Maine
Posts: 1,882
Local Time: 05:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMacPhisto View Post
Is Clinton now doomed to lose Vermont and Washington in the general election because she got whomped there? Of course not.
She got schlonged there.
__________________
Bluer White is online now  
Old 05-20-2016, 02:37 PM   #956
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
BEAL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,568
Local Time: 10:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMacPhisto View Post
This is a truly horrific post.





1) Your first line says Bernie should do more to help people down ticket. Um, so what does that entail exactly? I'm all ears.



2) Your second line is just friggin' ridiculous because Clinton is faced with the exact same dilemma. I'm absolutely bewildered by people believing that her being President will somehow make Republicans suddenly reach across the aisle and pass left-leaning legislation. Have you been asleep these last seven years?



3) Clinton has been doing fundraising where the DNC pays her money and gives her a share for her Presidential run. It does not solely benefit members of her own party. And of course Sanders is supporting all sorts of Democrats in November and wants them to win. Give me evidence where he has said otherwise.





Clintonistas. Outnumbered on the internet and not in tune to the future of the party. I wish you all weren't so in love with big banking, fracking and racism (superpredators, 08 campaign, Goldwater girl) and could see the real problems in this society and just how we need to change them. I want to stop Trump so bad from winning in November and it's people like you that have left us with such a terrible Democratic candidate. You really don't care about winning or helping the party and just want to sabotage everything to elect somebody whose name you recognize despite her persistent shortcomings. At least we will all know who to blame when her scandals come back to bite her in the ass in November, harming the party down ticket and potentially costing the left the Presidency.

This is tiring.

It's like a false dichotomy. It's either black or white, all or nothing there is no grey, no middle ground, no compromise.

We get it, you only want a candidate who will pass EVERYTHING they have proposed or NOTHING at all. You're happy if Bernie is in White House and nothing passes because well at least he campaigned on the ideology you believe in. There can be no compromise on these values. He must get it all, or nothing is fine too.

I feel Obama has done the best anyone could ever do with the shit he had to deal with. Think of the progress we as a country have seen since he took office.

Agree with it or not but we missed a Great Recession/Depression era.

Our Foreign Policy, while not perfect, is no longer a joke.

And social issues have been a huge focus, and progress made there.

All under Obama, and myself, and others feel Clinton will continue this legacy. No it won't make us the socialized fantasy of what Bernie wants, but we are inching closer to it. Incremental changes, it's how our society was set up, and it's doing just that. Even with as fucked up as it is

And you should know very well how Bernie can help other Dems on the ticket for November....He can show up at their campaign events, he can ENDORSE, and he can raise money for them.

Something every other politician has done for their party since the beginning.

Without those Dems taking seats from GOP, his policies are dead, cause we all know he won't compromise at all with anyone.


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference
__________________
BEAL is online now  
Old 05-20-2016, 02:40 PM   #957
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,662
Local Time: 04:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMacPhisto View Post
Yeah, it's called complacency. Of course the more politically active people are always going to demand more than those that feel Democracy starts and ends with a vote in November.
So let me get this straight; Sanders supporters = 'more polically active entitled assholes'.

and once again; women and minorities = complacent sheep that can't think for themselves.

Got it
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 05-20-2016, 03:08 PM   #958
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
BigMacPhisto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 6,252
Local Time: 05:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BEAL View Post

It's like a false dichotomy. It's either black or white, all or nothing there is no grey, no middle ground, no compromise.

We get it, you only want a candidate who will pass EVERYTHING they have proposed or NOTHING at all. You're happy if Bernie is in White House and nothing passes because well at least he campaigned on the ideology you believe in. There can be no compromise on these values. He must get it all, or nothing is fine too.
That is not what I'm saying at all. Passing anything left-leaning would be a step in the right direction. I'm arguing that Clinton is just as ineffective with a Republican Congress as Bernie would be. Neither will be given an inch by the GOP.

And some people in this thread still don't understand compromise. Compromise is fine if the GOP were willing to compromise. They're not. Not one inch. So if Clinton finds common ground with them on major legislation, it's automatically something that is anathema to the left, such as Obama working Republicans for TPP votes. That's exactly why the far left fears Clinton. Not because of what she supports as a lot of that is a step in the right direction even if it doesn't go as far as Sanders but because of the common ground she shares with the GOP on a handful of issues.

If the GOP aren't even willing to compromise on making government do its basic functions (passing a budget, confirming justices, etc.) why on earth would they suddenly agree to any of the proposals that Clinton has trumped up in this primary? It's never going to happen.

It's my personal belief that Clinton will care more about history book accomplishments than holding her ground for eight years. If it means agreeing to social security cuts or increasing the military budget or allowing more fracking, she'll go along with it just to get something done amidst the Republican intransigence. And that's good for none of her supporters. With Clinton getting shellacked in the 1994 midterms, we got NAFTA, welfare reform and the repeal of Glass-Steagall.
__________________
BigMacPhisto is offline  
Old 05-20-2016, 03:09 PM   #959
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
BigMacPhisto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 6,252
Local Time: 05:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BVS View Post
So let me get this straight; Sanders supporters = 'more polically active entitled assholes'.

and once again; women and minorities = complacent sheep that can't think for themselves.

Got it
I'd say the entitled ones are the ones arguing that "it's her turn"

And women? Young women are supporting Sanders by overwhelming margins. This primary is really an age issue more than it is a gender or race issue.
__________________
BigMacPhisto is offline  
Old 05-20-2016, 03:13 PM   #960
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,662
Local Time: 04:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMacPhisto View Post
I'd say the entitled ones are the ones arguing that "it's her turn"

And women? Young women are supporting Sanders by overwhelming margins. This primary is really an age issue more than it is a gender or race issue.
Well, I don't hear anyone saying that in here.

Interesting, that's not what you said in the past.
__________________

__________________
BVS is online now  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:11 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com