2016 US Presidential Election Thread - VII

[Headache in a Suitcase]

unless, of course, you alienate the middle.

Or you galvanize the right...

Ding.

There are moderate Republicans who are so disgusted with what they've put up that they'd actually consider voting for Hillary, something most of us would think would never ever happen in a million years... but hey, Trump and Cruz.

Going farther to the left because You think you can get away with it, because of how bad the GOP candidates are, could end up back firing.

Rural voters will vote overwhelmingly for the GOP candidate. Urban candidates will vote overwhelmingly the other way.

The election will be decided in the moderates in the suburbs. Right now they'll go hard for anyone but Trump or Cruz.

Nominate a far leftist, and then all of a sudden Kasich or some other more moderate, less douchey candidate comes out of a contested GOP convention, and you may will end up losing a presidency that you were given on a silver platter.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

Woah, where did you get the idea that I've written him off, and especially because of his supporters?

No one is calling all supporters "bros", but there's a loud vocal group where the shoe fits. They're annoying and they're doing Sanders a disservice.

And I have no idea where you got 'if they do it, I should do it, too?'


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I made the point like two posts ago that buying into the stereotypes and voicing them out loud is a way of illegitimizing the platform. Many people are using the followers as a way of illegitimizing the Sanders campaign. It's annoying. I hate hearing about the followers. I really do. Why is it a discussion worth having? This boils back down to the point that incredibly dumb people vote on both sides. Weighing whose loud voters are more irritating doesn't mean anything at all.

 

[BVS]

I have to say it's a bit odd to me that some of you seem so utterly obsessed with supporters of a particular candidate, when the only real criticism is that they are irritating (Hillary fans condescending/Bernie Bros aggressive naive kids). I mean...who cares?

It's one thing to be terrified of Trump's supporters who are openly racist and inciting violence, but on the Dem side, it's basically politically passionate people (agree with them or not) who may take it a step too far and who have the bad luck of living in an age of social and digital media such that their behaviour appears amplified.

Well there's been open racism and sexism on Bern's side too. It's not the passion that bothers me, it's the bubble culture that mirrors the right.


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[anitram]

Well there's been open racism and sexism on Bern's side too.

As opposed to Hillary's surrogates saying things like "there is a special place in hell for women who don't support [i.e. vote for] other women"?

Look, I'd vote for her over Bernie because I'm practical but the condescension from her supporters, the way they speak to the other side as if they are all stupid kids is really bloody irritating too. But I don't let that influence my vote nor do I say things like "it's not doing her any favours", etc. What's it got to do with Hillary or Bernie that some of their supporters are awful? Anybody whose vote would be swayed by that is off in some kind of la-la land if you ask me.

 

[BEAL]

Ding.

There are moderate Republicans who are so disgusted with what they've put up that they'd actually consider voting for Hillary, something most of us would think would never ever happen in a million years... but hey, Trump and Cruz.

Going farther to the left because You think you can get away with it, because of how bad the GOP candidates are, could end up back firing.

Rural voters will vote overwhelmingly for the GOP candidate. Urban candidates will vote overwhelmingly the other way.

The election will be decided in the moderates in the suburbs. Right now they'll go hard for anyone but Trump or Cruz.

Nominate a far leftist, and then all of a sudden Kasich or some other more moderate, less douchey candidate comes out of a contested GOP convention, and you may will end up losing a presidency that you were given on a silver platter.

This is what I feel could and would happen with Bernie as the nominee.

Don't throw the WH away because of being greedy with proposal ideas.

Baby steps


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[mikal]

Really rough start for Bernie tonight. He just keeps bringing up the same points. No solutions.

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[Irvine511]

Really rough start for Bernie tonight. He just keeps bringing up the same points. No solutions.

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Condescending! So condescending! You're not better than me!




(In all seriousness, I hope people realize I was kidding with my earlier post)

 

[BEAL]

Really rough start for Bernie tonight. He just keeps bringing up the same points. No solutions.

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Gloves are coming off just a lil bit more. Very beginning of these debates it was kind of a love fest. Neither would attack.

Now that Bernie has made it much closer, Substance needs to come out (on both sides)


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[Caleb8844]

Ding.

There are moderate Republicans who are so disgusted with what they've put up that they'd actually consider voting for Hillary, something most of us would think would never ever happen in a million years... but hey, Trump and Cruz.

To underscore this point, I'm a moderate who frequently votes red. I could easily see myself pulling the lever for Clinton. I wouldn't even consider voting Sanders.


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[BVS]

As opposed to Hillary's surrogates saying things like "there is a special place in hell for women who don't support [i.e. vote for] other women"?



Look, I'd vote for her over Bernie because I'm practical but the condescension from her supporters, the way they speak to the other side as if they are all stupid kids is really bloody irritating too. But I don't let that influence my vote nor do I say things like "it's not doing her any favours", etc. What's it got to do with Hillary or Bernie that some of their supporters are awful? Anybody whose vote would be swayed by that is off in some kind of la-la land if you ask me.

Yeah, anyone who says that doesn't get it.

But saying "that doesn't do any favors" doesn't mean I'm not voting for someone based on their followers, it's about; if you're trying to win over hearts you're doing it wrong.


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[PhilsFan]

Alright, last couple of pages confirmed I'll be voting for Sanders in the primary.

 

[BVS]

Because facts and policy was discussed?


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[Vlad n U 2]

Alright, last couple of pages confirmed I'll be voting for Sanders in the primary.

The discussion in this thread only makes me more sympathetic to Sanders. And I don't need to outline my view on him again because I think I've said it enough.

 

[Axver]

The last hundred or so posts have just confirmed my view of US politics as a cesspool.

 

[Irvine511]

To underscore this point, I'm a moderate who frequently votes red. I could easily see myself pulling the lever for Clinton. I wouldn't even consider voting Sanders.


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This is the most important post of the past several pages.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

This is the most important post of the past several pages.

This isn't the first time you've tried to make a point about that, and this isn't the first time where I am going to point out that the numbers simply don't agree. Sanders does far better with independents. Right now, the bulk majority of the independent crowd is looking at Sanders and Trump.

It's why Sanders is killing Trump head to head. They share supporters. It's the confusing but true statement I've made a few times...

 

[Salome]

Sanders does far better with independents. Right now, the bulk majority of the independent crowd is looking at Sanders

I am sure Sanders will remain to do so until someone starts targeting him and zero in on the flaws in his campaign.

 

[Irvine511]

This isn't the first time you've tried to make a point about that, and this isn't the first time where I am going to point out that the numbers simply don't agree. Sanders does far better with independents. Right now, the bulk majority of the independent crowd is looking at Sanders and Trump.

It's why Sanders is killing Trump head to head. They share supporters. It's the confusing but true statement I've made a few times...

The person who also does well in the general is Kasich. Why? He and Sanders are comparatively unknown and unvetted. As opposed to the rest who are very well known and very well vetted. Sanders and Kasich will have much further to fall when voters are given a side-by-side comparison in the fall.

The strongest argument for either candidate is winning in the general. We can all agree that it's important to flip such a conservative SCOTUS and keep Trump/Cruz out of the WH. I don't buy that national polls taken today are the best indicator of who could do that.

 

[BVS]

It's why Sanders is killing Trump head to head. They share supporters. It's the confusing but true statement I've made a few times...

If this is true then we're done for... Socialism or Authoritarianism? Are our independents truly this mindless that these two choices are equal?


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[cobl04]

I know the NY Post is a Murdoch rag, but fuck me, I would have thought an editorial endorsement for the fucking president of the "free world" would have a minute shred of substance, or have a reading comprehension higher than a five-year-old.

 

[Irvine511]

I am sure Sanders will remain to do so until someone starts targeting him and zero in on the flaws in his campaign.

Can someone name a policy he's proposed, that's much different from hers, that's concrete and specific and that you're confident he would enact as president.

For all the complaints 6 months ago that Bernie was being ignored by the media, it may have worked well to his advantage. He was never tied down to give specifics, he rolled along on powerful, barn burning speeches and ideas that were galvanizing to his base. The scrutiny is only beginning. We'll see how well he does. He's awfully smart and a good politician.

 

[Irvine511]

If this is true then we're done for... Socialism or Authoritarianism? Are our independents truly this mindless that these two choices are equal?


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Independents think of themselves as open minded -- they tend to like new candidates until they get to know them.

 

[digitize]

I know the NY Post is a Murdoch rag, but fuck me, I would have thought an editorial endorsement for the fucking president of the "free world" would have a minute shred of substance, or have a reading comprehension higher than a five-year-old.

Like the Washington Times, the New York Post is considered to have literally no credibility whatsoever.


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[Headache in a Suitcase]

The majority of the people who will decide this election don't vote in primaries and don't respond to polling questions.

They're the average unaffiliated suburban baby boomer, and they can and have been swayed easily in either direction based on the candidate.

 

[PhilsFan]

Because facts and policy was discussed?

You know something, I'll engage with Irvine because while I disagree with him on a number of important points in this particular primary race, I respect that he is thoughtful, measured, and challenges me in ways that constantly make me re-evaluate my positions in a constructive manner. There are a number of good contributors to this board who do that, liberals and moderates alike.

You are not one of those people. The one-liners and condescension wore thin about eight years ago, even on topics where we largely agree (of which there are plenty). I've been here for ten years, if even I haven't made it clear to you by this point that I'm not some moron on a crusade who won't listen to reason, I think it's clear that the problem isn't on my end.

 

[BVS]

You know something, I'll engage with Irvine because while I disagree with him on a number of important points in this particular primary race, I respect that he is thoughtful, measured, and challenges me in ways that constantly make me re-evaluate my positions in a constructive manner. There are a number of good contributors to this board who do that, liberals and moderates alike.

You are not one of those people. The one-liners and condescension wore thin about eight years ago, even on topics where we largely agree (of which there are plenty). I've been here for ten years, if even I haven't made it clear to you by this point that I'm not some moron on a crusade who won't listen to reason, I think it's clear that the problem isn't on my end.

You made a silly comment, I responded with a tongue in cheek comment. I'm sorry you took it for anything else.


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[BEAL]

This election is tearing us apart!!!!

 

[mikal]

This election is tearing us apart!!!!

No shit. WTF.

I guess we should all just clear the air and talk about what we don't like about each other now.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

Make interference great again.

 

[BEAL]

I hope Bono is ok


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