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Old 04-21-2016, 07:16 AM   #1006
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2016 US Presidential Election Thread - VII

You're a strange cookie...
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Old 04-21-2016, 07:18 AM   #1007
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"Bernie or bust" guys are actually funny, because it's fucking pathetic.
Aren't you one of them?

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Originally Posted by LuckyNumber7 View Post
Don't you think that series of posts comes off a little... holier than thou?
I'm sure most of the world's commentary on American politics is a little holier-than-thou.

I'm cool with it.

PS Come on you guys, I've already made one part of your presidential threads. Don't make me make another.
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Old 04-21-2016, 07:38 AM   #1008
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Aren't you one of them?
If hillary is nominee for general election, Im fine with her. but in the primary when Bernie has a chance, i want him to fight as hard as possible. it's making no sense but...all I'm getting is, Bernie is clearly is better to me, but if Hillary is the only choice and the republican candidate will be probably way worse than her I think, so there's that.
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Old 04-21-2016, 09:25 AM   #1009
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I entirely disagree and think this argument is such a logical fallacy. He doesn't have an obligation to vote for a democratic candidate solely based upon the fact that the republican candidate sucks. Nor is he "voting for Donald Trump." This is not a good argument, and undermines someone's right to not vote.

If he doesn't like Hilary Clinton, fine. Explain to him why voting for Clinton is still voting for a lot of what he supports. But don't draw that card... there's several possible outcomes of his vote, one including him actually voting for Trump due to his distaste for Clinton. As a simple form of statistics, he has never supported Clinton and continues not to support Clinton. The only individuals who are a "vote for trump" are the individuals who agree to support Clinton and do not vote.
He really does. This isn't just about him. Clinton has her issues, but a Republican president with a Republican house gets to whack away at minority rights with impunity. If you neglect to vote for the challenger to the Republican candidate, which will more than likely be Clinton in November, you are supporting the GOP's war on minorities. That's how American politics works, whether you care to admit it or not. This isn't me being a dogmatic Democratic shill; I'm voting for Sanders on Tuesday. But I understand the reality we are in. If you (I am using the royal "you" here) deny what I am saying, I have a hard time believing you really appreciate the seriousness of all of this.
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Old 04-21-2016, 10:16 AM   #1010
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If I were a US citizen, I would vote for Hillary Clinton in November to prevent a Republican presidency. Extremely, extremely, extremely reluctantly. I don't blame people who've got a problem with it.
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Old 04-21-2016, 10:34 AM   #1011
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2016 US Presidential Election Thread - VII

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He really does. This isn't just about him. Clinton has her issues, but a Republican president with a Republican house gets to whack away at minority rights with impunity. If you neglect to vote for the challenger to the Republican candidate, which will more than likely be Clinton in November, you are supporting the GOP's war on minorities. That's how American politics works, whether you care to admit it or not. This isn't me being a dogmatic Democratic shill; I'm voting for Sanders on Tuesday. But I understand the reality we are in. If you (I am using the royal "you" here) deny what I am saying, I have a hard time believing you really appreciate the seriousness of all of this.

Obviously we've disagreed on this topic, dating years back.

We haven't gotten any closer, on the topic, either. All I'm reading here is that in your eyes, the individual doesn't matter, and he owes some sort of credit to what you perceive to be the greater good.

If this were the case, voting would be mandatory. You have zero power when you simply eat whatever food is placed in front of you. You've a terrible misconception that he and you share the same tastes and distastes, simply because you're both voting for the same candidate.
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Old 04-21-2016, 10:42 AM   #1012
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If this were the case, voting would be mandatory.
Compulsory voting seems to be a complete non-sequitur here.
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Ian McCulloch the U2 fan:
"Who buys U2 records anyway? It's just music for plumbers and bricklayers. Bono, what a slob. You'd think with all that climbing about he does, he'd look real fit and that. But he's real fat, y'know. Reminds me of a soddin' mountain goat."
"And as for Bono, he needs a colostomy bag for his mouth."

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Old 04-21-2016, 10:46 AM   #1013
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Originally Posted by LuckyNumber7 View Post
Obviously we've disagreed on this topic, dating years back.

We haven't gotten any closer, on the topic, either. All I'm reading here is that in your eyes, the individual doesn't matter, and he owes some sort of credit to what you perceive to be the greater good.

If this were the case, voting would be mandatory. You have zero power when you simply eat whatever food is placed in front of you. You've a terrible misconception that he and you share the same tastes and distastes, simply because you're both voting for the same candidate.
It's his right to not care if the GOP can attack women and minorities. Planned Parenthood continuing to be attacked for no reason to hurt women's healthcare. All of the progress on LGBT issues stopping and in some cases regressing. If that's all cool with people, they don't have to vote for Hillary Clinton. But let's not pretend that's it's not an extremely privileged place to be in to be able to cast aside those most vulnerable in the case of a GOP presidency because Hillary Clinton doesn't make us feel good.
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Old 04-21-2016, 10:53 AM   #1014
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Compulsory voting seems to be a complete non-sequitur here.

It was just to illustrate a point. Nobody is obliged to vote. And most CERTAINLY nobody is obliged to align themselves with one of the two major parties for the general election. That very logic is the reason we are stuck where we are. If neither offers the product you want, you're not obliged to do pick the lesser of two evils.

Personally, I think this particular election is justified logic in saying "anybody but Trump/Cruz." The last election, I forget who it was, was blasting it as "the most important election of my lifetime." As if. Every election earns that accolade, as it's happening. It's just a swath of hysteria, and the notion that you're somehow doing a disservice by abstaining from voting is utter garbage. The very act of not voting is in itself a vote for wanting something else.
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Old 04-21-2016, 10:56 AM   #1015
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Don't you think that series of posts comes off a little... holier than thou?
But it's true... the Democratic race has become as vitrolic as the one in the GOP, minus the name calling and all. But still.
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Old 04-21-2016, 10:58 AM   #1016
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Originally Posted by PhilsFan View Post
It's his right to not care if the GOP can attack women and minorities. Planned Parenthood continuing to be attacked for no reason to hurt women's healthcare. All of the progress on LGBT issues stopping and in some cases regressing. If that's all cool with people, they don't have to vote for Hillary Clinton. But let's not pretend that's it's not an extremely privileged place to be in to be able to cast aside those most vulnerable in the case of a GOP presidency because Hillary Clinton doesn't make us feel good.

You're applying your own personal beliefs and specific opinions into a one size fits all critique. You're so stuck on the narrative. You need to back up, and view it from a broader perspective. The fabric of the democracy that we live in. Polarizing red and blue with an obligation to be on board one of those ships is not what it's about.
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Old 04-21-2016, 11:18 AM   #1017
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The very act of not voting is in itself a vote for wanting something else.
Well, this is a tangent - and we should be using the new thread anyway, or if we're going to discuss compulsory voting maybe a separate thread entirely - but from an Australian perspective this is not a valid argument.

The High Court unanimously ruled that:

Quote:
However much the elector may say he has no personal preference for any candidate, that none of them will suit him, he is not asked that question nor required to express by his vote that opinion. He is asked to express a preference amongst those who are available for election. That is to state which of them, if he must have one or more of them as Parliamentary representatives, as he must, to mark down his vote in an order of preference of them.
This is a judgement with which I personally concur in broad terms. I was somewhat surprised when Obama praised our compulsory voting system recently. It would certainly transform American politics.

Of course this doesn't get at the issue of voting for candidates who have no realistic prospect of victory under a first-past-the-post system, which was another theme of the discussion and one which I will leave for another time on account of the fact I should be asleep.
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Ian McCulloch the U2 fan:
"Who buys U2 records anyway? It's just music for plumbers and bricklayers. Bono, what a slob. You'd think with all that climbing about he does, he'd look real fit and that. But he's real fat, y'know. Reminds me of a soddin' mountain goat."
"And as for Bono, he needs a colostomy bag for his mouth."

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Old 04-21-2016, 11:22 AM   #1018
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Time for the next thread, gang.
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