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Old 04-19-2016, 05:02 PM   #826
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If you don't bother to sign up for the club, you can't vote for the club's treasurer. What's stopping everyone going independent and voting to place the weaker candidate for the other side?


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This is the weakest and most repeated argument in favor of closed primaries. It's like you just ignored the point I made about how closed primaries encourage this two party system to thrive. Just babbling the wash-rinse-repeat line that everyone uses.

And your argument overall is both condescending and total garbage. If you think conspiring independents will try to sabotage an election... what's stopping republicans from changing parties to vote for the weaker candidate on the other side and do the very same thing?
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Old 04-19-2016, 05:14 PM   #827
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I was actually shocked that Trump got registered as a Republican early enough.
Good one
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Old 04-19-2016, 05:24 PM   #828
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This is the weakest and most repeated argument in favor of closed primaries. It's like you just ignored the point I made about how closed primaries encourage this two party system to thrive. Just babbling the wash-rinse-repeat line that everyone uses.

And your argument overall is both condescending and total garbage. If you think conspiring independents will try to sabotage an election... what's stopping republicans from changing parties to vote for the weaker candidate on the other side and do the very same thing?

Lucky, did you not read my post? Your second paragraph is exactly what I was saying.

Like it or not, it's an organization, if you're not willing to identify yourself with that organization why do you feel you have a say in how the organization proceeds.

I'm not willing to label myself D or R, so I don't feel any right to tell them who they should nominate.


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Old 04-19-2016, 05:33 PM   #829
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Lucky, did you not read my post? Your second paragraph is exactly what I was saying.

Like it or not, it's an organization, if you're not willing to identify yourself with that organization why do you feel you have a say in how the organization proceeds.

I'm not willing to label myself D or R, so I don't feel any right to tell them who they should nominate.


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No, it's not. Some semi-open primaries welcome independents to vote, but do not allow individuals registered with other parties to vote.

As it currently stands, the likelihood of sabotage is just as high, if you're suggesting some conspiracy to vote in a lesser candidate. Most people don't think "I'm going to go vote for the other side's weaker candidate," and even if they do... they can currently already do that. Giving independents the ability to vote doesn't change that at all, and it's totally absurd to think that that would be the case.

And "like it or not" is not an argument, so don't use it as one. I'm fully aware of reality. That doesn't make it right. This is an argument against the structure and power of political parties. Blah blah blah George Washington, no political parties. As an independent I'm only given two options due to the consolidation of power from the two party system. Hell yes I should have the right to vote in the primaries without registering.

Either that, or those "organizations" shouldn't have the ability to consolidate power.
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Old 04-19-2016, 05:42 PM   #830
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No, it's not. Some semi-open primaries welcome independents to vote, but do not allow individuals registered with other parties to vote.

As it currently stands, the likelihood of sabotage is just as high, if you're suggesting some conspiracy to vote in a lesser candidate. Most people don't think "I'm going to go vote for the other side's weaker candidate," and even if they do... they can currently already do that. Giving independents the ability to vote doesn't change that at all, and it's totally absurd to think that that would be the case.

And "like it or not" is not an argument, so don't use it as one. I'm fully aware of reality. That doesn't make it right. This is an argument against the structure and power of political parties. Blah blah blah George Washington, no political parties. As an independent I'm only given two options due to the consolidation of power from the two party system. Hell yes I should have the right to vote in the primaries without registering.

Either that, or those "organizations" shouldn't have the ability to consolidate power.

I'm really not sure what you are arguing. Back in 2008 Limbaugh tried to get his listeners to change their registration so they could vote for Hillary in the primary and make her the candidate. If all primaries were open they wouldn't have to do that, they would just have to be independent. Then they can do that with every election. I don't know how else to explain.

You get no arguments from me on the two party system, but open primaries is not the answer.


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Old 04-19-2016, 06:21 PM   #831
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I'm really not sure what you are arguing. Back in 2008 Limbaugh tried to get his listeners to change their registration so they could vote for Hillary in the primary and make her the candidate. If all primaries were open they wouldn't have to do that, they would just have to be independent. Then they can do that with every election. I don't know how else to explain.

You get no arguments from me on the two party system, but open primaries is not the answer.


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1. Limbaugh's listeners are typically Republicans, not Independents
2. It's just as easy to register as a Democrat as it is to register as an Independent

So, Rush Limbaugh trying to convince his listeners to be rogue Democrats is essentially the same thing as him trying to convince them to be Independents.

That is, unless of course, you're suggesting that everyone would be an independent without closed primaries? If so, mission accomplished! You've taken the most important step in eliminating the two party system.

Honestly, though, this is totally moot to even be debating. Rush Limbaugh and his little tiny sabotage movement didn't do anything and wouldn't do anything were every primary to be open (a significant amount of them ARE open in some fashion). You can't produce any numbers to suggest that a significant portion of the population has voted in a primary for a candidate that they absolutely in no way shape or form would vote for in November. You can't, because it doesn't really happen.
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Old 04-19-2016, 06:33 PM   #832
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We all know Bernie is in the pocket of Big Ice Cream.

Show us the Ben and Jerry's speeches!
New flavors for 2016:

Chocolate Chip He Took Their Dough

Pecan Sanders

Busted in DC Mocha
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Old 04-19-2016, 06:34 PM   #833
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Originally Posted by LuckyNumber7 View Post
1. Limbaugh's listeners are typically Republicans, not Independents
2. It's just as easy to register as a Democrat as it is to register as an Independent

So, Rush Limbaugh trying to convince his listeners to be rogue Democrats is essentially the same thing as him trying to convince them to be Independents.

That is, unless of course, you're suggesting that everyone would be an independent without closed primaries? If so, mission accomplished! You've taken the most important step in eliminating the two party system.

Honestly, though, this is totally moot to even be debating. Rush Limbaugh and his little tiny sabotage movement didn't do anything and wouldn't do anything were every primary to be open (a significant amount of them ARE open in some fashion). You can't produce any numbers to suggest that a significant portion of the population has voted in a primary for a candidate that they absolutely in no way shape or form would vote for in November. You can't, because it doesn't really happen.

I don't even know where to
begin :facepalm:





People register as a party because they are party people and because they want a say in how that party is ran.

If it was a four party system I'd say the same thing; if you don't choose a corner then you don't have a right in telling that corner who they choose. Period. You still have a right to vote in what direction the country is going. But if you're not a member of the party you don't have a right in telling that party anything.


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Old 04-19-2016, 07:19 PM   #834
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I don't even know where to
begin :facepalm:
Then don't. Your consistent method of berating my opinion as uneducated or foolish is annoying.
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Old 04-19-2016, 07:30 PM   #835
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Then don't. Your consistent method of berating my opinion as uneducated or foolish is annoying.

Honestly, it has absolutely nothing to do with your opinion. It was your complete misunderstanding, it came off as being purposely obtuse.


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Old 04-19-2016, 07:36 PM   #836
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At least you guys can just basically declare yourselves as R or D and vote in the primaries if you comply with the rules.

Here you have to pay (it's a small fee but still) to join a party and then show up to vote when a riding elects a candidate. Basically nobody does this in Canada so we vote for whoever the riding foists on us, typically being insiders nominating one of their own. Now granted we don't vote for a president so it matters less but still fairly undemocratic.
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Old 04-19-2016, 09:24 PM   #837
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I don't even know where to
begin :facepalm:



probably you should make set of axioms before constructing any systems of logic that seems to work pretty well considering the thousands of years of history in Math/logic.
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Old 04-19-2016, 09:52 PM   #838
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I wonder who's feeling the burn tonight. This is a slaughtering.

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Old 04-19-2016, 09:53 PM   #839
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I'm not even surprised.
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Old 04-19-2016, 09:59 PM   #840
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Honestly, it has absolutely nothing to do with your opinion. It was your complete misunderstanding, it came off as being purposely obtuse.


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This post is exactly my point. Thank you.
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