2016 US Presidential Election Thread - VII - Page 29 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-07-2016, 04:33 PM   #421
Blue Crack Addict
 
mikal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Black Lodge
Posts: 24,907
Local Time: 04:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMacPhisto View Post
So, it's more heroic to be for something you were previously against when it was unpopular than to take a stand decades prior?


That would fit in with the new fiction of Hillary Clinton = Prominently Important Gay Rights Activist For Decades.
Does it matter though? I have a ton of respect for someone willing to flip flop on an issue after researching it further. I don't really care how they got there as long as I agree with their standpoints.

Great example, my dad grew up in a very racist portion of northern Wisconsin. It wasn't until he joined the military and met people from other races that he realized that racism was complete BS. Does that make my dad any less of a person?
__________________

__________________
mikal is online now  
Old 04-07-2016, 04:38 PM   #422
Blue Crack Addict
 
PhilsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Standing on the shore, facing east.
Posts: 18,881
Local Time: 05:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by womanfish View Post
Wow. I've never once heard that. Having been a bernie guy for months and switching to HRC, and being active on FB and Twitter, I've seen both sides, AND have been actively hit from both sides.
I can attest to the fact that Bernie people seem to just spew piles of vileness compared to most HRC people.
99% of Hillary people will admit that HRC isn't perfect, and would vote for Bernie if he's the nom.
I'd say a good 30% of Bernie posts i see are a long list of GOP smears against Clinton followed by, I will never vote for the corporate shill, Killary!!

Ugh.. I'm not sure where you are frequenting on social media, but thank god you are shielded from the onslaught that i see.
I'm at a Twitter crossroads between sports fans and humorous people who are also liberals. It's a mixture of Clinton and Sanders supporters but I would say as a whole they tend to lean Sanders. A lot of them are troubled by Clinton's foreign policy, her views on income inequality, and her utter inability to recognize and understand where the people to her left are coming from. So I'm not going to pretend I'm getting 100 percent objectivity here. These are Sanders supporters who are flummoxed by the Clinton campaign and thus are having it out with the prominent voices defending Clinton and attacked Sanders. Peter Daou, Tom Watson, Sady Doyle, Michael Cohen, those types. I don't know how familiar everyone here is with names like those, but they've been particularly vocal Clinton supporters and their defenses/attacks on Sanders have ranged from bizarre, to hilariously outlandish, to flat out lies. I'm at work and don't have time to go through it all, but that's where I'm coming from.
__________________

__________________
PhilsFan is online now  
Old 04-07-2016, 04:39 PM   #423
Resident Photo Buff
Forum Moderator
 
Diemen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Somewhere in middle America
Posts: 13,237
Local Time: 04:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
last time i checked, Diemen, the globe was still warming at an alarming rate, children were still being shot to death on the streets of Chicago, and we don't have a global basic income to lift millions of Africans out of poverty.

a real progressive would have accomplished all these things.
The rise of the left wing "compromise is weakness" counterpart to the tea party is truly a wonder to behold.
__________________
Diemen is offline  
Old 04-07-2016, 04:39 PM   #424
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 30,488
Local Time: 05:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMacPhisto View Post
You're either supportive of something on day one or you are detrimental to the cause.

yeah, see, this is exactly what's wrong with our politics. ossification and an unreasonable demand for purity used to be only for those on the right.

as a homosexual (i love saying that), i totally understood that Obama couldn't take a pro-SSM position because, shock, it would have, at the time, meant that he would be in danger of losing votes that he needed to win the election. i knew, instinctively, that he was pro-SSM, and would one day be pro-SSM, and that if i were patient, and voted for the right people, and continued to make the argument, and if he continued to make incremental change (like DADT), that eventually the time would come. i'm not a child, so i didn't demand to be catered to or that my own individual concerns were so important that they were more important than other concerns, nor do i think that my vote is something rare and precious that must be courted and won, like some maiden's virginity. politics is a zero sum game, and it's a long game, and it's more important to assemble a coalition and run a national party that works together for achievable common goals than to be so sure of our rightness and so intolerant of other viewpoints and ways of life and the fact that, gosh, change *is* hard for some people, that we sacrifice the good for our own self-absorbed ideas of perfection.
__________________
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 04-07-2016, 04:40 PM   #425
Blue Crack Addict
 
PhilsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Standing on the shore, facing east.
Posts: 18,881
Local Time: 05:48 PM
Also, Bill Clinton had a very bad day in Philadelphia.
__________________
PhilsFan is online now  
Old 04-07-2016, 04:42 PM   #426
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,678
Local Time: 04:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMacPhisto View Post
You're either supportive of something on day one or you are detrimental to the cause. By Obama not coming out immediately in support of gay rights, it led to the passage of a lot of discriminatory legislation, some of which was voter approved like Prop 8 in California. So, he helped set back the movement before giving them a shove in the right direction years after the fact.

Prop 8 happened before he took office.


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 04-07-2016, 04:43 PM   #427
Blue Crack Addict
 
mikal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Black Lodge
Posts: 24,907
Local Time: 04:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
yeah, see, this is exactly what's wrong with our politics. ossification and an unreasonable demand for purity used to be only for those on the right.

as a homosexual (i love saying that), i totally understood that Obama couldn't take a pro-SSM position because, shock, it would have, at the time, meant that he would be in danger of losing votes that he needed to win the election. i knew, instinctively, that he was pro-SSM, and would one day be pro-SSM, and that if i were patient, and voted for the right people, and continued to make the argument, and if he continued to make incremental change (like DADT), that eventually the time would come. i'm not a child, so i didn't demand to be catered to or that my own individual concerns were so important that they were more important than other concerns, nor do i think that my vote is something rare and precious that must be courted and won, like some maiden's virginity. politics is a zero sum game, and it's a long game, and it's more important to assemble a coalition and run a national party that works together for achievable common goals than to be so sure of our rightness and so intolerant of other viewpoints and ways of life and the fact that, gosh, change *is* hard for some people, that we sacrifice the good for our own self-absorbed ideas of perfection.
__________________
mikal is online now  
Old 04-07-2016, 05:00 PM   #428
Rock n' Roll Doggie
 
BEAL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,576
Local Time: 10:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
i feel as if we've all gotten a good glimpse of what we were talking about earlier.

This x100000

It's like debating with the Extreme Right.

NO COMPROMISE!!!! HILLARY EVIL!!!! BERNIE SAVES


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference
__________________
BEAL is online now  
Old 04-07-2016, 05:05 PM   #429
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 40,678
Local Time: 04:48 PM
It's a good thing Bernie is 74 and the Messiah, this probably means his evolving is over and there's no more changing stances.


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference
__________________
BVS is online now  
Old 04-07-2016, 05:09 PM   #430
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,501
Local Time: 02:48 PM
I'm glad the left finally woke up and realizes who the enemy is.
__________________
deep is offline  
Old 04-07-2016, 05:21 PM   #431
ONE
love, blood, life
 
LuckyNumber7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Leicester, UK
Posts: 12,370
Local Time: 05:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikal View Post
I think it's more heroic when someone is able to change or evolve their stance because they realize it's the right thing to do.

Oh come on. That's not the story at all. She either changed her views on stuff like gay marriage because she previously took the favored political stance that she personally disagreed with, or because she took he favored political stance that she didn't agree with when it became popular.

She didn't "heroically" evolve. If anything, she never really cared.
__________________
LuckyNumber7 is online now  
Old 04-07-2016, 05:27 PM   #432
Blue Crack Addict
 
mikal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Black Lodge
Posts: 24,907
Local Time: 04:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyNumber7 View Post
Oh come on. That's not the story at all. She either changed her views on stuff like gay marriage because she previously took the favored political stance that she personally disagreed with, or because she took he favored political stance that she didn't agree with when it became popular.

She didn't "heroically" evolve. If anything, she never really cared.
Proof?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
__________________
mikal is online now  
Old 04-07-2016, 05:30 PM   #433
ONE
love, blood, life
 
LuckyNumber7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Leicester, UK
Posts: 12,370
Local Time: 05:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
yeah, see, this is exactly what's wrong with our politics. ossification and an unreasonable demand for purity used to be only for those on the right.


I agree. While I don't admire Clinton's "evolution," I do think it's a bit ridiculous that it would disqualify her. It's not what she stands for now, and that's what matters. It definitely speaks to her character... or rather better put... it speaks to Senator Sanders' character.

But character isn't everything. People should focus more on now and tomorrow. I've been critical of Clinton on stuff like this, but I'll totally still vote for her on the grounds that she does represent a fair portion of what I want.

If you can produce damning evidence that suggests that she routinely says one thing and then does another, that's a problem. But I have no crazy imagination that Clinton would go out and reenact DOMA just because 20 years ago she was in favor of it.
__________________
LuckyNumber7 is online now  
Old 04-07-2016, 05:31 PM   #434
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Mack_Again's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: definitely Osaka
Posts: 6,620
Local Time: 05:48 PM
this argument is so futile because we can't get into Hillary's head.
__________________
Mack_Again is offline  
Old 04-07-2016, 05:33 PM   #435
Rock n' Roll Doggie
VIP PASS
 
Mack_Again's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: definitely Osaka
Posts: 6,620
Local Time: 05:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikal View Post
Proof?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
I want to prove but to complete the proof I need to complete studying about hyperbolic space.
__________________

__________________
Mack_Again is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com