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Old 04-07-2016, 04:09 PM   #406
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And yes, Obama didn't get shit done outside of the ACA. This isn't some narrative concocted by Sanders supporters, it's the damn truth ever since Republicans gained control of the House (and they were a huge annoyance in the Senate before that).
You're totally right. I assume in the mix of "shit" Obama's administration didn't get done that isn't even worth mentioning, you're including his 2 liberal women justice Supreme Court nominations, his push to end DADT, his support of LGBT equality, and negotiating a nuclear deal with Iran that experts nearly unanimously agree is much better than they would have expected was possible?

Shit like that?
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Old 04-07-2016, 04:11 PM   #407
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Hey, bro, I support those that get things done. He's the ammendment king.

Bernie Sanders was the roll call amendment king from 1995 to 2007 | PolitiFact


Whereas Clinton sponsored a whopping three pieces of successful legislation while in the Senate...



That's Clinton "getting things done" #HillarySoQualified
Clinton was a co-sponsor on 73 other pieces of legislation that became law, most notably the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act of 2009, which was approved before she resigned to become secretary of state, and a 2008 bill to improve veterans’ mental health care.
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Old 04-07-2016, 04:11 PM   #408
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Sounds like a revolution.
The revolution that got in a guy who politically was right where you would expect a Democratic nominee to be at the time and arguably to Clinton's right if you just looked at their Senate records. Really, it was all about electing a black man who spoke well to the Presidency over the untrustworthy Clinton. Wasn't really a big difference on the issues.

And don't get me wrong, it was a different situation at the time. Obama was the best of the viable candidates in 2008. But if he had been in congress and voted for the Iraq War, I really don't think he would have pulled out the nomination win as there would have been little contrast between him and Clinton.
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Old 04-07-2016, 04:13 PM   #409
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Yes, but he had a Republican House for most of that time and also passed that insanely high number of roll call amendments despite that whereas Clinton had...

...drumroll....


ZERO!


But she had no problem sending thousands of Americans off to their deaths in Iraq. She made sure to check that box when it was politically convenient.

#HillaryNoShame
Funny, Both-ways Bernie voted for Regime Change TWICE in Iraq. But then of course didn't actually vote for the means for that to actually happen. But when Bush jumped the gun and went to war before finishing inspections, Ol' Bernie voted 5 times to fund the war he was so vehemently against.

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Old 04-07-2016, 04:15 PM   #410
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You're totally right. I assume in the mix of "shit" Obama's administration didn't get done that isn't even worth mentioning, you're including his 2 liberal women justice Supreme Court nominations, his push to end DADT, his support of LGBT equality, and negotiating a nuclear deal with Iran that experts nearly unanimously agree is much better than they would have expected was possible?

Shit like that?
A President nominates supreme court appointees. Obama chose to put up a couple women. Big deal.

He came around to the LGBT table extremely late. It's not even worth calling that a plus.

Ending don't ask don't tell was great, but still, way too late. Should have been done immediately.

Nuclear deal with Iran is great and Kerry, shockingly, is one of our best Secretaries of State. I'll give Obama a point for that.




Again, most of that isn't legislation. Just what you would expect any Democrat to do as President once they're in there. Are we going to start assigning Obama credit for passing out awards to famous singers that perform at the White House? Or to Michelle for the easter egg roll?
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Old 04-07-2016, 04:16 PM   #411
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You're totally right. I assume in the mix of "shit" Obama's administration didn't get done that isn't even worth mentioning, you're including his 2 liberal women justice Supreme Court nominations, his push to end DADT, his support of LGBT equality, and negotiating a nuclear deal with Iran that experts nearly unanimously agree is much better than they would have expected was possible?

Shit like that?
If only he could have gone all about that in a more liberal way!
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Old 04-07-2016, 04:17 PM   #412
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i feel as if we've all gotten a good glimpse of what we were talking about earlier.
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Old 04-07-2016, 04:17 PM   #413
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Old 04-07-2016, 04:18 PM   #414
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Funny, Both-ways Bernie voted for Regime Change TWICE in Iraq. But then of course didn't actually vote for the means for that to actually happen. But when Bush jumped the gun and went to war before finishing inspections, Ol' Bernie voted 5 times to fund the war he was so vehemently against.

Nobody said he was perfect. Well, maybe some of is supporters...

Biggest mistake Democrats made in recent memory was not immediately de-funding the War in Iraq and bringing home all the troops after they won the 2006 election. Instead, the party shamelessly let people continue to die and waste billions in that boondoggle in order to help their own electoral chances.

Doesn't mean they all had that in mind. I mean, I get why plenty of them funded the war since they were hoping it would lead to a resolution in the near future which they preferred to just cutting and running. But it clearly was the wrong move in retrospect (and the wrong move out of principle).
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Old 04-07-2016, 04:20 PM   #415
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If only he could have gone all about that in a more liberal way!
Yep, could've supported gay rights and gay marriage from day one, but you know, he cared more about what was popular at the time...

At least Obama flipped before a majority supported the issue. Clinton literally waited until the needle was comfortably over 50% before announcing that she supported gay marriage.
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Old 04-07-2016, 04:20 PM   #416
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You're totally right. I assume in the mix of "shit" Obama's administration didn't get done that isn't even worth mentioning, you're including his 2 liberal women justice Supreme Court nominations, his push to end DADT, his support of LGBT equality, and negotiating a nuclear deal with Iran that experts nearly unanimously agree is much better than they would have expected was possible?

Shit like that?


last time i checked, Diemen, the globe was still warming at an alarming rate, children were still being shot to death on the streets of Chicago, and we don't have a global basic income to lift millions of Africans out of poverty.

a real progressive would have accomplished all these things.
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Old 04-07-2016, 04:21 PM   #417
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Originally Posted by BigMacPhisto View Post
A President nominates supreme court appointees. Obama chose to put up a couple women. Big deal.

He came around to the LGBT table extremely late. It's not even worth calling that a plus.

Ending don't ask don't tell was great, but still, way too late. Should have been done immediately.

Nuclear deal with Iran is great and Kerry, shockingly, is one of our best Secretaries of State. I'll give Obama a point for that.




Again, most of that isn't legislation. Just what you would expect any Democrat to do as President once they're in there. Are we going to start assigning Obama credit for passing out awards to famous singers that perform at the White House? Or to Michelle for the easter egg roll?

CASE IN POINT


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Old 04-07-2016, 04:24 PM   #418
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You're either supportive of something on day one or you are detrimental to the cause. By Obama not coming out immediately in support of gay rights, it led to the passage of a lot of discriminatory legislation, some of which was voter approved like Prop 8 in California. So, he helped set back the movement before giving them a shove in the right direction years after the fact.

Like, if Reagan had suddenly announced a bunch of AIDS funding and support in his last week in office, would you suddenly call him an AIDS hero?
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Old 04-07-2016, 04:25 PM   #419
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You're either supportive of something on day one or you are detrimental to the cause. By Obama not coming out immediately in support of gay rights, it led to the passage of a lot of discriminatory legislation, some of which was voter approved like Prop 8 in California. So, he helped set back the movement before giving them a shove in the right direction years after the fact.

Like, if Reagan had suddenly announced a bunch of AIDS funding and support in his last week in office, would you suddenly call him an AIDS hero?
I think it's more heroic when someone is able to change or evolve their stance because they realize it's the right thing to do.
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Old 04-07-2016, 04:30 PM   #420
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So, it's more heroic to be for something you were previously against when it was unpopular than to take a stand decades prior?


That would fit in with the new fiction of Hillary Clinton = Prominently Important Gay Rights Activist For Decades.
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