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Old 03-31-2016, 07:37 PM   #136
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I would hazard a guess that the people in this thread who are worried about taxes are also probably not terribly insecure on the health insurance front.

I would also hazard a guess, for the upper middle class, a Bernie-like tax plan would be pretty unambiguously negative. That's not an argument that such a plan is necessarily bad, but it is an argument that a major segment of the American population that at least doesn't feel like it has a ton of extra disposable income would be hit in a noticeable way.
Great thoughts, digit.

My guess is that we all recognize tax rates need to be adjusted periodically. And every class, from fast food employees hoping for 15 bucks per hour, to the trendy upper middle class homes bringing in 225K+, to the millionaires and up....they all have very "nuanced" positions as to why their rates shouldn't be increasing much. It's a healthy discussion to have and Sanders is sparking it.
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Old 03-31-2016, 08:21 PM   #137
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No mention of his proposed tax on financial transactions of the Wall Street variety. At a fraction of the rate of existing sales taxes (which it would be analogous to), that alone would help significantly in funding such things as university tuition. In the hypothetical future world where such things became law.
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Old 03-31-2016, 08:28 PM   #138
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I thought his tax pal would tax high frequency/high risk trades on the stock market. and that'll fund shit tons of money for his plans.
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Old 03-31-2016, 09:54 PM   #139
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This. With the Republican Party imploding as it is right now, this is a great opportunity for the Democrats .
you can stop right there and add, and a decent chance to pick up? the senate (that will advise and consent)
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Old 03-31-2016, 09:57 PM   #140
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I thought his tax pal would tax high frequency/high risk trades on the stock market. and that'll fund shit tons of money for his plans.
a tax pal? is this a socialist concept?
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Old 03-31-2016, 11:44 PM   #141
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2016 US Presidential Election Thread - VII

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Originally Posted by Kieran McConville View Post
No mention of his proposed tax on financial transactions of the Wall Street variety. At a fraction of the rate of existing sales taxes (which it would be analogous to), that alone would help significantly in funding such things as university tuition. In the hypothetical future world where such things became law.

There is absolutely nothing about this plan that is a good idea. It's strictly pandering to anti-Wall Street anxiety. At the very least, the tax on trades is strictly more harmful than an increase on tax rates for all income at a certain level.

I do think the education needs to be better-funded in this country, though, and I'm not against raising taxes to do it. BUT, I think that making public universities free is a ridiculous place to allocate increased education dollars. First of all, most public universities aren't really what's contributions to massive debt problems, being relatively affordable. (I'm looking at you, small liberal arts schools and for-profit degree mills.) Second of all, this would be a fairly regressive way to spend money. Where it really should be spent is on K-12 education in low-income communities, not buying the votes of white college-age Bernie Bros from relatively well-off families (okay, sorry, stereotyping a bit off of what I see at UT).

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Old 04-01-2016, 12:24 AM   #142
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There is absolutely nothing about this plan that is a good idea. It's strictly pandering to anti-Wall Street anxiety. At the very least, the tax on trades is strictly more harmful than an increase on tax rates for all income at a certain level.
Really? A tax of maybe max. 1% (or less) or so on certain financial transactions is that harmful?

Quote:
I do think the education needs to be better-funded in this country, though, and I'm not against raising taxes to do it. BUT, I think that making public universities free is a ridiculous place to allocate increased education dollars. First of all, most public universities aren't really what's contributions to massive debt problems, being relatively affordable. (I'm looking at you, small liberal arts schools and for-profit degree mills.) Second of all, this would be a fairly regressive way to spend money. Where it really should be spent is on K-12 education in low-income communities, not buying the votes of white college-age Bernie Bros from relatively well-off families (okay, sorry, stereotyping a bit off of what I see at UT).

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I wonder if at this point the useful parts of university education (ie. not mere credentialism, diploma-for-the-wall stuff) should properly be considered an essential along with the grade 1-12 primary and secondary education. My own experience, many years gone now and in a different country, is that at least the first year of a typical undergraduate course would have been better off treated as a sort of high school 'grade 13' and made available to everyone on the same basis as high school already is. I'm drifting a little here, off the topic.
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Old 04-01-2016, 12:38 AM   #143
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Really? A tax of maybe max. 1% (or less) or so on certain financial transactions is that harmful?







I wonder if at this point the useful parts of university education (ie. not mere credentialism, diploma-for-the-wall stuff) should properly be considered an essential along with the grade 1-12 primary and secondary education. My own experience, many years gone now and in a different country, is that at least the first year of a typical undergraduate course would have been better off treated as a sort of high school 'grade 13' and made available to everyone on the same basis as high school already is. I'm drifting a little here, off the topic.

Re: tax - yes, certainly harmful. There's no such thing as a free lunch. 1% is terrifyingly huge, so I hope it's smaller than that. But it would come with reduced liquidity across the board, reduced money in investment accounts for the rich and poor, increased bid/ask spreads, etc., none of which is true. You can say that this disproportionately affects the rich, which is true, but there absolutely no good reason to then not just levy the tax on the entirety of the high-income-earning population instead of concentrating it in financial services. And concentrating it here also affects non-rich savers, pension funds, etc., which are already doing fairly terribly at the moment. Of course, no tax (ceteris paribus) has good economic effects, but it's much better to spread the impact of necessary taxes broadly than to concentrate them arbitrarily. This is just a way to feast off of anti-Wall Street sentiment... and, I suppose, to tax normal savers without letting them realize that.

Re: education - yes, a bachelor's degree is increasingly necessary. It also still has a highly positive return on investment in most cases, without being free. The thing that deters people from going to college is awful K-12 education. It would take a lot more K-12 funding there to convince me that putting the marginal dollar into paying for getting rid of public university tuition is a better idea than giving it to low-income K-12 districts.


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Old 04-01-2016, 01:44 AM   #144
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China defense planning includes losing 30 per cent of their population as they ramp up eventually win the war. It's a good plan.
I guarantee you no nation's war plan in the history of humanity has ever involved losing 30% their population.
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Old 04-01-2016, 03:33 AM   #145
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Sanders now ahead of Clinton in the latest Wisconsin polls. Should have no problem winning there although he needs to make it a big enough win. Barely winning, or worse, losing means it's the end of the road as there's no way in hell he would succeed in states like New York or Pennsylvania if he loses Wisconsin. A defeat in Wisconsin effectively closes his small window at winning a pledged delegate majority to a 0% chance.

Meanwhile, he is quickly pulling in on Clinton's numbers in New York which doesn't even vote for another two weeks. Sizable wins in New York and Wisconsin would quickly make the delegate math not so troubling for the guy as he's only some 92 delegates behind the benchmarks that 538 has set for him to win the majority of pledged delegates. Exceeding the benchmarks in Wisconsin and New York by a good margin could really close that gap.
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Old 04-01-2016, 03:40 AM   #146
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you can stop right there and add, and a decent chance to pick up? the senate (that will advise and consent)
I don't even think about the Democrats picking up the Senate because I view it as an absolute given. The Republicans have to defend so many damn seats that they won in 2010 when nobody voted...the only real struggle for Dems is that they gave up too many damn seats in the 2014 elections that they now need to win a lot more to win it all back...but I think it's totally doable, and with a shitty Republican nominee hurting everyone down-ballot, it might even be a cake walk.

But the House? I mean, holy hell, even the out-of-touch Clinton campaign gave up on that pipe dream forever ago. We're stuck with Republican obstructionism until at least after the next census.
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Old 04-01-2016, 03:49 AM   #147
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a tax pal? is this a socialist concept?
my commie fingers are not so accurate.
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Old 04-01-2016, 03:51 AM   #148
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Speaking of college and affordability...

Not only is tuition skyrocketing past inflation, but holy hell try getting a loan these days. I'm in the process of applying for a federal loan. My sister was telling me about her loan rates etc. in the late 90s/early 2000s... getting a government loan back then used to mean something. Now, you're pretty much getting a private loan, with Uncle Sam's name on it.

Not only do I need almost twice the amount in a loan that she did over the same period, but I have to pay it back under much shittier conditions.
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Old 04-01-2016, 04:06 AM   #149
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Nobody is making you borrow it.
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Old 04-01-2016, 04:09 AM   #150
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I don't even think about the Democrats picking up the Senate because I view it as an absolute given. The Republicans have to defend so many damn seats that they won in 2010 when nobody voted...the only real struggle for Dems is that they gave up too many damn seats in the 2014 elections that they now need to win a lot more to win it all back...but I think it's totally doable, and with a shitty Republican nominee hurting everyone down-ballot, it might even be a cake walk.

But the House? I mean, holy hell, even the out-of-touch Clinton campaign gave up on that pipe dream forever ago. We're stuck with Republican obstructionism until at least after the next census.
Census won't matter that much Dems are too stupid to get the govnorships and legislators to control the gerrymandering.
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