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Old 03-04-2016, 07:05 PM   #211
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The thing is, Kasich's record is pretty awful, there is no way I'd vote for him over Hillary (especially on social issues), but his temperament is so easily above everyone else's on stage. Even Ted Cruz, whom I find the most detestable, is coming across as more presidential than Rubio or Trump.

I'd like to know more about Kasich - but i thought even his answer on SSM in the last debate "I've moved on" was pretty reasonable.
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Old 03-04-2016, 07:13 PM   #212
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Also, and this is for the Bernie folk, Trump is an excellent argument for the existence of Super Delegates.
I'm a Bernie supporter. I've never brought the argument that Bernie has no chance because of super delegates because I never considered the idea that super delegates would actively turn their backs on the voters. Meaning that if Bernie somehow pulled ahead in regular delegates - extremely unlikely, I know - I think the super delegates would get in line rather than enabling Hillary to flip off the voters.

But what you're suggesting is that if the Republicans had super delegates, then they could easily do what they are now desperately looking for a way to do, which is screw Trump and the GOP electorate over.

Trump is scary, so I don't have too much of a problem with the GOP doing whatever it needs to do to oust him in their current super delegate-less system, because this is an extraordinary circumstance, but I don't know how I feel about normalizing the notion of overturning the peoples' voting decisions.

I'm reminded of a Lewis Black joke where he's talking about the people that write your baby's name down on the birth certificate and how, referencing the fact that Jermaine Jackson named his kid Jermajesty, that those people that write the name down on the birth certificate should be empowered to say, 'no, try again'.

The GOP having super delegates, and then both parties normalizing the idea of using them to overturn the will of the people would be like that, empowering elected officials to tell the people, 'no, try again' when determining nominees for the highest office in the nation. Except, it would be even more than that because it wouldn't be 'no, try again', it would be 'no, and now I'm going to name your baby for you'.

Just not sure we should be wanting to encourage ideas like that.
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Old 03-04-2016, 07:56 PM   #213
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2016 US Presidential Election Thread Part VI

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Originally Posted by namkcuR View Post
I'm a Bernie supporter. I've never brought the argument that Bernie has no chance because of super delegates because I never considered the idea that super delegates would actively turn their backs on the voters. Meaning that if Bernie somehow pulled ahead in regular delegates - extremely unlikely, I know - I think the super delegates would get in line rather than enabling Hillary to flip off the voters.



But what you're suggesting is that if the Republicans had super delegates, then they could easily do what they are now desperately looking for a way to do, which is screw Trump and the GOP electorate over.



Trump is scary, so I don't have too much of a problem with the GOP doing whatever it needs to do to oust him in their current super delegate-less system, because this is an extraordinary circumstance, but I don't know how I feel about normalizing the notion of overturning the peoples' voting decisions.



I'm reminded of a Lewis Black joke where he's talking about the people that write your baby's name down on the birth certificate and how, referencing the fact that Jermaine Jackson named his kid Jermajesty, that those people that write the name down on the birth certificate should be empowered to say, 'no, try again'.



The GOP having super delegates, and then both parties normalizing the idea of using them to overturn the will of the people would be like that, empowering elected officials to tell the people, 'no, try again' when determining nominees for the highest office in the nation. Except, it would be even more than that because it wouldn't be 'no, try again', it would be 'no, and now I'm going to name your baby for you'.



Just not sure we should be wanting to encourage ideas like that.



My guess is there would be more nuance to it -- like, if a candidate had less than 50% of the popular vote or the delegates, then they could trump the candidate (ha!) with some super delegate power.

If someone were sweeping to victory like Romney did in 2012, then the super delegates would have no legitimacy if they screwed the candidate over.
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Old 03-04-2016, 08:02 PM   #214
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Didn't we say this in 2012 when Obama beat Mitt though? That they'd regroup and be much better in 2016? And now they've gone the other way!


My thought after 2012 was that they were screwed unless they started to appeal to minorities and young people. Romney won white married people comfortably, but Obama killed him everywhere else.

It seems that the GOP has doubled down on the old white angry vote, which means they are likely going to get clobbered in the general.

But, as always, anything could happen. Health issues for a candidate. A major terror attack. We just don't know. Authoritarians do well when people are scared. I hope nothing too scary happens between now and November. Trump is cut from the same rancid cloth as UKIP or the National Front. Our two party system has diluted these racist, nationalist voters. But they seem to be in control of the GOP at the moment.
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Old 03-04-2016, 08:42 PM   #215
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it's weird. I remember, in 2012, asking if I was right in saying the GOP should be extremely concerned having lost. There were so many criticisms of Obama at the time, if I recall correctly. He seemed to be losing momentum and the GOP gaining momentum. But then, because of the reasons you stated if the first two sentences of your post, the Dems were just so much more comfortable, because they had a good spread. Whereas the GOP was riding on the loud support of white married people.

And then, in the next four years, I feel like there was a huge groundswell in the progressive circles in many areas. Obama came out in support of same-sex marriage. Black Lives Matter rose as black people became sick to death, literally and figuratively, of being assaulted and killed by police. There's been more support for gender diversity. Feminism has become more popular (and Hillary has used that to her advantage). Which should all point to the Dems being the powerhouse...

...but then I also feel like there's been an equally huge groundswell in conservative, but more specifically racist, sexist, homophobic, POLITICAL CORRECTNESS!!! circles. Like, in equal to progressive thought become louder. And now they have been given a voice by Donald Trump, who I give some credit. I don't think the Trump we see is necessarily really him. I think he's cottoned on to a sense of "fuck the status quo" that he likes and he's doing this as a power trip, and it's huge for his ego, and he's comfortably winning.

It'll be really interesting to see what happens in November. Because I think the one similarity to 2012 is that at that time the GOP seemed to have all the momentum, and they ended up getting wiped. This time around, they have all the momentum too, but might still get wiped.

I don't know. Any Americans please feel free to tell me to shut up, I'm just talking out of my arse. It's just how I'm reading it.
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Old 03-04-2016, 08:42 PM   #216
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At any rate, this is the fucking country you live in. I could spend the rest of my life trying to understand how this sign is a real thing and never get any closer to understanding how.

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Old 03-04-2016, 09:23 PM   #217
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...but then I also feel like there's been an equally huge groundswell in conservative, but more specifically racist, sexist, homophobic, POLITICAL CORRECTNESS!!! circles. Like, in equal to progressive thought become louder. And now they have been given a voice by Donald Trump
Yep. When people who support him say they like him because he "tells it like it is", I read "tells it like it is" as: "He's saying all the racist, sexist, xenophobic stuff we want to say but don't have the guts to say/feel we can't say without getting shut down by the 'PC police'."

And I've definitely heard a LOT of conservatives griping about the Black Lives Matter movement online. Saying stuff like, "All lives matter, not just black ones" (thus showing they're totally missing the point of that phrase), or defending the police in those instances, saying they had the right to do what they did and people just need to learn to respect law enforcement better (because apparently you can't respect what law enforcement does as a whole while also criticizing the flawed elements of it. Nope. Gotta be one side or the other).

As for your comment on that gun photo, I'm just going to leave this here:

Iowa's Kid-Friendly Gun Bill - The Daily Show with Trevor Noah Video Clip | Comedy Central

I'll remind you we're just a little over three years past Sandy Hook.

Also, thanks, Iowa politiicans, for making my state look bad.
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Old 03-04-2016, 09:23 PM   #218
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I know it's just shorthand for a certain politico/cultural tendency, but I find all the white people this and white people that a little tiresome at times. It's a little bit like the media's love of 'generationalism'. Put it this way, I'm pretty sure some white married people, even some white married old people, voted for Obama both times.
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Old 03-04-2016, 09:34 PM   #219
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Well yeah obviously it's a generalisation.
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Old 03-04-2016, 09:46 PM   #220
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I know it's just shorthand for a certain politico/cultural tendency, but I find all the white people this and white people that a little tiresome at times. It's a little bit like the media's love of 'generationalism'. Put it this way, I'm pretty sure some white married people, even some white married old people, voted for Obama both times.


Except there is actual polling data with specific percentages to back up these assertions. Smart people who are good at math work hard to get accurate polling, and campaigns build strategies and spend resources based upon these numbers.
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Old 03-04-2016, 11:37 PM   #221
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So this happened . . .

Glenn Beck was on-air and said "If I was on stage with him (Trump) with a knife, the stabbing wouldn't stop"

Guess who got questioned by the Secret Service today?
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Old 03-05-2016, 12:23 AM   #222
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2016 US Presidential Election Thread Part VI

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So this happened . . .

Glenn Beck was on-air and said "If I was on stage with him (Trump) with a knife, the stabbing wouldn't stop"

Guess who got questioned by the Secret Service today?

Sorry Oregoropa, you're wrong. I was watching the show and it was directed at his co host Stu, not Trump. They're good buds and were fooling around.
Already been proven that it was wrongly reported.
Trumpbart.....excuse me Breitbart...ran with the story of course. The Trump people are out to get Beck because he has Trump pegged down and will not stop attacking him.

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Old 03-05-2016, 12:28 AM   #223
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This did happen

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/muslim-s...election-2016/
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Old 03-05-2016, 12:28 AM   #224
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Fuck Ted Cruz.
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Old 03-05-2016, 12:31 AM   #225
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Except there is actual polling data with specific percentages to back up these assertions. Smart people who are good at math work hard to get accurate polling, and campaigns build strategies and spend resources based upon these numbers.
Well, I don't think that I dispute that, as a thing that happens. But surely it's exactly this kind of divide-and-conquer politics that has brought us to this pretty pass. It's barely politics at all; it's marketing.
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