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Old 02-28-2016, 10:56 AM   #856
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So, ahead of Super Tuesday, Donald Trump fails to condemn the KKK because he needs more information on them. Seriously.

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Old 02-28-2016, 10:57 AM   #857
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How would you revamp it?


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I can think of a couple of things:

- charging of interest on subsidized loans
- charge for the actual cost of tuition, not the immense college bureaucracy that supplies for stuff like athletics fees, campus prettification, SGA, etc.
- better government support of college institutions
- promote interstate education by means of removing the "out of state tuition" rate for public state universities (in the EU, all EU citizens/residents are charged the same rates, whereas international non-EU students are charged more)
- actually have the federal government fund higher education (given that most states have reversed course on caring)
- have universities held to a standard of allocation of funds (having worked for two different branches of my university, I can tell you that very often they spend money 'because they have to')
- the investment in Greek life (yup, you pay for this...)
- how about those NFL stadiums sprouting up at each university? How about 'fuck college sports' in general
- athletic scholarships, the NCAA


We had it made in Florida, just ten years ago. A little program called Florida Bright Futures. Did okay in high school? They comp'd you 75% of tuition on 130 credits. Did good in high school? 100%. All funded by the Florida lottery, it made college costs very reasonable (you'd pay the $700 a semester for books and stupid fees and whatnot). Then, the state government started to dip into things. Not only does the 75/100 model lie nowadays (they just comp a per credit hour that's nowhere near the real cost), but the state government of Rick Scott decided to defund education further (over a billion) to fulfill his "conservative" agenda, forcing tuition to spike 15% two years in a row. It now costs roughly $6000 a year to go to a Florida state institution. Six years ago, when I was a freshman, it was $4000. And that $4000 used to be virtually covered, if you weren't a total idiot.


The cost of a 4 year degree has tremendously outpaced inflation. It didn't come from out of nowhere. Quasi-free tuition isn't as crazy as one might think. There's just a huge system of bureaucracy and government that drive the prices up.
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Old 02-28-2016, 11:01 AM   #858
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Trump
Who?

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Trump
Never heard of him.

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Trump
Need more information.
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Old 02-28-2016, 11:21 AM   #859
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I can think of a couple of things:

- charging of interest on subsidized loans
- charge for the actual cost of tuition, not the immense college bureaucracy that supplies for stuff like athletics fees, campus prettification, SGA, etc.
- better government support of college institutions
- promote interstate education by means of removing the "out of state tuition" rate for public state universities (in the EU, all EU citizens/residents are charged the same rates, whereas international non-EU students are charged more)
- actually have the federal government fund higher education (given that most states have reversed course on caring)
- have universities held to a standard of allocation of funds (having worked for two different branches of my university, I can tell you that very often they spend money 'because they have to')
- the investment in Greek life (yup, you pay for this...)
- how about those NFL stadiums sprouting up at each university? How about 'fuck college sports' in general
- athletic scholarships, the NCAA


We had it made in Florida, just ten years ago. A little program called Florida Bright Futures. Did okay in high school? They comp'd you 75% of tuition on 130 credits. Did good in high school? 100%. All funded by the Florida lottery, it made college costs very reasonable (you'd pay the $700 a semester for books and stupid fees and whatnot). Then, the state government started to dip into things. Not only does the 75/100 model lie nowadays (they just comp a per credit hour that's nowhere near the real cost), but the state government of Rick Scott decided to defund education further (over a billion) to fulfill his "conservative" agenda, forcing tuition to spike 15% two years in a row. It now costs roughly $6000 a year to go to a Florida state institution. Six years ago, when I was a freshman, it was $4000. And that $4000 used to be virtually covered, if you weren't a total idiot.


The cost of a 4 year degree has tremendously outpaced inflation. It didn't come from out of nowhere. Quasi-free tuition isn't as crazy as one might think. There's just a huge system of bureaucracy and government that drive the prices up.

So, are you just suggesting that the government should pick up more of the tab on education (in other words, redistributing the costs away from college students to society as a whole) or that there's substantial way to actually cut what college costs? You mention sports (although my school is one of the few lucky ones that profits from sports and sends some of that profit over to academics) and bureaucracy as places to cut. I'm honesty not sure how much that accounts for the explosion in college costs. A lot of professors here at UT like to attack the bureaucracy (and in doing so tend to make subtle jabs at millennial-focused institutions like the Gender and Sexuality Center); I'd be curious to know how much that has actually contributed to things.

If you're mainly interested in redistributing the cost of college, not actually reducing it, I've not made my mind up there yet. Government completely picking up the tab for higher education is actually probably a pretty regressive wealth transfer, insofar as it would still likely to be relatively well-off people who would attend college under such a scheme. There's a good question about whether it's a good idea for the government to be regressively subsidizing what still amounts to positive-ROI investments for relatively well-off people. As far as negative-ROI degrees (e.g. what happens with a lot of liberal arts degrees nowadays), that's where things get interesting. There's probably a good argument that there are enough positive externalities for society resulting from such degrees to warrant some degree of government subsidization, although I'm not sure what the right amount is (more or less than there is now).

Of course, any reasonable person can agree that some of the most egregious examples of negative-ROI degrees have causes that can and should be stopped. Most prominently, it's obscene for government-subsidized loans to be flowing to predatory useless for-profit colleges.

If the government spigot is going to start flowing more to education, though, I'm much more inclined to see it flow to K-12, especially to poorer students. That's where the real inequality happens.


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Old 02-28-2016, 12:31 PM   #860
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Trump beating Hillary in New York 41-38 according to new Sienna poll. If this is true, it can be argued PA and Michigan go Trump. Maybe more. I'm interested to see these state breakdowns as we get further into the election cycle. Initially I'd be shocked to see Trump within Five points of Hillary in NY. I think the Blue Wall Rust Belt would be in play from PA to MN. There is less Hispanic population in these states. Plenty of Blue Collar Dems that may crossover to Trump. These are areas that have had their manufacturing bases decimated in the past 30 years.

I live outside Wilkes-Barre Scranton metro PA. A lot of legacy Democrats whose parents loved FDR and passed the affiliation down. My step-dad has voted Democrat his whole life and is now switching his affiliation to vote for Trump. Several other coworkers doing the same thing. I know it's anecdotal by that's my report on the ground from what I'm witnessing.

The Union vote is fairly well educated when it comes to to livelihood of their businesses. Trump's acknowledgement of Trade imbalances is going a long way with these voters.


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Old 02-28-2016, 01:02 PM   #861
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Trump tweets Mussolini quote and won't condemn KKK, yet still has the blind that are willing to let this country burn. Yay


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Old 02-28-2016, 01:22 PM   #862
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Trump beating Hillary in New York 41-38 according to new Sienna poll. If this is true, it can be argued PA and Michigan go Trump. Maybe more.
Could also just be due to the fact that NY is Trump's home state. (And merely Billary's adopted state)
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Old 02-28-2016, 01:57 PM   #863
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2016 US Presidential Election Thread Part V

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Originally Posted by BVS View Post
Trump tweets Mussolini quote and won't condemn KKK, yet still has the blind that are willing to let this country burn. Yay


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At least he doesn't support letting people die in the streets. Cruz is a champ.
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Old 02-28-2016, 02:06 PM   #864
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2016 US Presidential Election Thread Part V

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oregoropa View Post
Trump beating Hillary in New York 41-38 according to new Sienna poll. If this is true, it can be argued PA and Michigan go Trump. Maybe more. I'm interested to see these state breakdowns as we get further into the election cycle. Initially I'd be shocked to see Trump within Five points of Hillary in NY. I think the Blue Wall Rust Belt would be in play from PA to MN. There is less Hispanic population in these states. Plenty of Blue Collar Dems that may crossover to Trump. These are areas that have had their manufacturing bases decimated in the past 30 years.

I live outside Wilkes-Barre Scranton metro PA. A lot of legacy Democrats whose parents loved FDR and passed the affiliation down. My step-dad has voted Democrat his whole life and is now switching his affiliation to vote for Trump. Several other coworkers doing the same thing. I know it's anecdotal by that's my report on the ground from what I'm witnessing.

The Union vote is fairly well educated when it comes to to livelihood of their businesses. Trump's acknowledgement of Trade imbalances is going a long way with these voters.


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Every election cycle, the GOP thinks it's possible to win Pennsylvania.

Every election cycle they are wrong.

This year will be no different. Urban voters from Philly and Pittsburgh will overwhelm the rest of the state, as Mrs Clinton appears to get African-American women as inspired as Barack Obama did.

If a black candidate can win working class whites twice, what's going to stop a white lady from doing the same?

Mrs Clinton does not possess the same political skills of her husband or Obama, but Mr Trump is a vastly weaker candidate than the Republicans that were soundly beaten in PA.
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Old 02-28-2016, 02:23 PM   #865
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The Mussolini tweet has something to do with a Gawker Twitter bot ... or something. I'm not going to pretend to understand, but it sounds like it wasn't actually a thing Trump did.

Or something.

He is, however, guilty of everything else, including being a giant orange turd.
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Old 02-28-2016, 03:08 PM   #866
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So, ahead of Super Tuesday, Donald Trump fails to condemn the KKK because he needs more information on them. Seriously.

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Old 02-28-2016, 03:42 PM   #867
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Originally Posted by digitize View Post
So, are you just suggesting that the government should pick up more of the tab on education (in other words, redistributing the costs away from college students to society as a whole) or that there's substantial way to actually cut what college costs? You mention sports (although my school is one of the few lucky ones that profits from sports and sends some of that profit over to academics) and bureaucracy as places to cut. I'm honesty not sure how much that accounts for the explosion in college costs. A lot of professors here at UT like to attack the bureaucracy (and in doing so tend to make subtle jabs at millennial-focused institutions like the Gender and Sexuality Center); I'd be curious to know how much that has actually contributed to things.

If you're mainly interested in redistributing the cost of college, not actually reducing it, I've not made my mind up there yet. Government completely picking up the tab for higher education is actually probably a pretty regressive wealth transfer, insofar as it would still likely to be relatively well-off people who would attend college under such a scheme. There's a good question about whether it's a good idea for the government to be regressively subsidizing what still amounts to positive-ROI investments for relatively well-off people. As far as negative-ROI degrees (e.g. what happens with a lot of liberal arts degrees nowadays), that's where things get interesting. There's probably a good argument that there are enough positive externalities for society resulting from such degrees to warrant some degree of government subsidization, although I'm not sure what the right amount is (more or less than there is now).

Of course, any reasonable person can agree that some of the most egregious examples of negative-ROI degrees have causes that can and should be stopped. Most prominently, it's obscene for government-subsidized loans to be flowing to predatory useless for-profit colleges.

If the government spigot is going to start flowing more to education, though, I'm much more inclined to see it flow to K-12, especially to poorer students. That's where the real inequality happens.


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I'm suggesting a combination of cutting internal costs, supplying federal funding, and restoring state funding.

I would venture to say that the bureaucracy of colleges is significant, if not necessarily a huge difference. I cannot tell you why it costs $12,000 a year (or however much) to go to a state school in PA versus $6000 in Florida -- that much I just don't quite understand. I'm not fully involved in the national picture, but I am involved in my state particularly. I know for sure that the reason tuition has inflated in Florida is because the state cut funding. I think I used my state's particular example because I wanted to paint the picture to suggest quasi-free education isn't *that* difficult to achieve, and that's without actual federal funding. In regards to how much the bureaucracy actually costs... you're usually able to see that from a higher level. Sometimes, that stuff is donation based. I'd venture to say that each individual piece isn't a big deal (saving tens of dollars per student), but the ultimate cost might be on the order of hundreds of dollars. I mean, gym fees alone cost ~$150-200 at my school.

I would also agree that a K-12 focus is more important than a higher education focus. That is, of course, where you make or break someone before adulthood. I'm currently having this very same argument on another forum with someone. I suggested that support of education systematically reduces incarceration -- only to be met with the response "so you're suggesting we should send criminals to college for free?"
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Old 02-28-2016, 04:06 PM   #868
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The Mussolini tweet has something to do with a Gawker Twitter bot ... or something. I'm not going to pretend to understand, but it sounds like it wasn't actually a thing Trump did.

Or something.

He is, however, guilty of everything else, including being a giant orange turd.

Gawker set up a Twitter account to try and prove that Trump will retweet anything that sounds complimentary to him. His ego fell for it and he retweeted the quote.

Just one of the 1000 reasons he's a dangerous asshole. The first time his ego is bruised what is he going to do with his new power? Lock someone up, shoot someone up?


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Old 02-28-2016, 06:34 PM   #869
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Anyone who thinks a Republican will take New York State is diluting themselves.
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Old 02-28-2016, 08:40 PM   #870
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http://youtu.be/Ixi9_cciy8w

THIS used to be the Republican Party, nothing like the cess pool it is today. Like I've said before, I really hope this election makes the GOP rethink their messaging, catering to the ignorant for so long has given you the likes of Cruz and Trump. If you don't learn from this election, then you've made yourself obsolete.


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