2016 US Presidential Election Thread Part V - Page 10 - U2 Feedback

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Old 02-10-2016, 08:40 PM   #136
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Old 02-10-2016, 08:45 PM   #137
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I'm agreed on Al Gore. Nader, I didn't think much of him running the way he did, but I've come to the view that if it was that close that Nader's role reduced the world to waiting on a supreme court judgement over hanging chads or whatever the fuck you call them, then it was too close. Gore campaigned like the inevitable candidate, only he ran like Julia Gillard (Australia) in 2010; with the administration's history amputated from his pitch (since Clinton's personal scandals were not something he wished to be associated with).
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Old 02-10-2016, 08:54 PM   #138
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I'm agreed on Al Gore. Nader, I didn't think much of him running the way he did, but I've come to the view that if it was that close that Nader's role reduced the world to waiting on a supreme court judgement over hanging chads or whatever the fuck you call them, then it was too close. Gore campaigned like the inevitable candidate, only he ran like Julia Gillard (Australia) in 2010; with the administration's history amputated from his pitch (since Clinton's personal scandals were not something he wished to be associated with).
Gore....Mrs. Clinton?

Nader....Bloomberg + a billion ?
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Old 02-10-2016, 08:54 PM   #139
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Hey it's the Nader cost the election fallacy!

More democrats voted for George Bush in Florida than they did for Nader.



Al Gore being an awful candidate cost Al Gore the election. Blame him.

The two party system is a sham. It's time to die a quick and utterly painful death. The candidates for both parties are absolute jokes.

It's not just Florida, Ohio and New Hampshire are two more states that Bush won very closely where Nader had 2+% of the vote. We can't know for sure if either of those states would've flipped, but you can't completely discount it.

And even if Nader didn't cost anything, it doesn't change the fact that Bloomberg poses a threat to the Democratic nominee, especially if it's Bernie.

He is not going to win. His potential candidacy concerns me,

And I strongly disagree that the Democratic nominees are jokes. But then I'm a life-long progressive, so that shouldn't be surprising.




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Old 02-10-2016, 08:56 PM   #140
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Old 02-10-2016, 08:57 PM   #141
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I also get a bit tired of the Nader vilification. Al Gore would have one had he simply WON HIS OWN HOME STATE. He couldn't even do that much.
Tennessee is a red state. If Romney had lost by one state and not won Massachusetts it would be silly to say he should have won his home state. Nader aside there are more credible issues with 2000 and the stealing of that election .
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Old 02-10-2016, 09:21 PM   #142
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i do see it, and while i agree that it is a small number of people, it's not something that i can remember being a part of democratic politics up until now, but it IS something that we saw in 2010 in GOP politics. i don't see policy positions that are the left wing equivalents of the Tea Party (not even sure what that would be), but i see the same structures at play. several people in here have commented on the aggressiveness of Sanders supporters, so this isn't coming out of nowhere. we can ponder the scope, but we cannot argue that it is or isn't "a thing."

not sure if you're addressing me in particular, but i haven't been all that critical of Sanders, and in fact have openly pondered who to vote for. i don't think i've actually "ripped" Bernie himself anywhere, and have consistently done what you say i haven't -- debated the viability of his economic policies and my concerns about his grasp on foreign policy. i don't think it's fair to take a small issue and present that as if that is the only thing i've offered.

you know, that's fine. my beef, as stated, is the growing strain of ideological purity that has so far not had much voice in the Democratic party -- when you have to sew together a broad coalition of blacks, gays, single women, labor unions, etc., you have to make compromises and often settle for least worst options in order to win office. what i am seeing amongst a small but real section of Sanders supporters feels more at home in the GOP of 2010 and 2014 than in the Democratic Party i've known. i'm not going to not comment on it in a discussion forum.
I did not mean to imply that you have not talked about the actual issues here, and I admit that I'm probably taking a bit of overall frustration about this on you because you're just the latest person I've seen talk about it.

As far as this whole Sanders vs. Clinton thing is concerned, I think the whole "compromises versus not compromises" thing would be a lot more valid if he were running against Obama in 2012. You have eloquently stated so often that some on the left are underselling his accomplishments over the last eight years because they are unwilling to accept the slow speed of the American political process. And if all of this rhetoric was Sanders vs. Obama, I think everything you've said would be dead on, and it would reflect poorly on Sanders' supporters. But as much as she wants to be, Clinton is not Obama. She's farther right than he is. It's one thing to have a leftist position and meet somewhere in the middle. It's another to already be there and knowing that it means the compromise will be even farther right.
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Old 02-10-2016, 09:50 PM   #143
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Tennessee is a red state. If Romney had lost by one state and not won Massachusetts it would be silly to say he should have won his home state. Nader aside there are more credible issues with 2000 and the stealing of that election .
You say this as if Al Gore was some kind of socialist carpetbagger rather than a member of a well-known and liked Tennessee political family dynasty.
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Old 02-10-2016, 11:28 PM   #144
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I was 9-years-old in 2000 so I don't have anything to add about that election.
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Old 02-11-2016, 12:18 AM   #145
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And I wouldn't use "very sane and levelheaded" to describe anybody who is either libertarian or anti-vax.
Also repeating myself, but Rand's anti-vax thing is about as disappointing to me, on a personal level, as his father's racism.

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One of the reasons Bernie Sanders has endeared himself to some is that he's a staunch supporter of publicly funded elections that theoretically eliminate private donations/bribes. But honestly, that's only half the battle.
Publicly funded elections are a HUGE part of the battle. I wish all of these so-called angry young republicans, tired of the system, and turning to Trump out of desperation could see that.
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Old 02-11-2016, 12:34 AM   #146
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2016 US Presidential Election Thread Part V

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Publicly funded elections are a HUGE part of the battle. I wish all of these so-called angry young republicans, tired of the system, and turning to Trump out of desperation could see that.
If the public is funding ludicrously expensive two-party elections, that doesn't solve everything.

We need to level the playing field across the parties so new voices can make a legitimate impact.
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Old 02-11-2016, 12:49 AM   #147
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There is a whisper campaign going on in South Carolina that Rubio has an out of wedlock black love child and that his wife is a prescription drug addict
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Old 02-11-2016, 02:25 AM   #148
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If the public is funding ludicrously expensive two-party elections, that doesn't solve everything.

We need to level the playing field across the parties so new voices can make a legitimate impact.
That's why a spending cap is also a good idea - everybody has to get their message out with the same amount of money. But public funding isn't unrestricted anyway. I think in Australia it's around $1.50 per vote that a party receives, as long as they get at least 4% of the vote (so they actually spend first and get paid later according to how good their results are). It's an imperfect system and it disproportionately benefits parties that are already successful. But it means candidates aren't out there with a begging bowl.
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Old 02-11-2016, 08:46 AM   #149
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Who says that? Trump? Republican establishment? Liberals? Of course they do. Everyone in Washington hates him because he's taking the Washington machine head on and winning. We would be blessed as a nation to have Ted Cruz as our next president.


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Your savior doesn't like him. Ron Paul says he's owned by Goldman Sachs. How does that sit with you?


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Old 02-11-2016, 09:12 AM   #150
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Cruz is a calculating sleazeball with a thin facade of humanity. He's also literally in bed with Wall Street. That fucker has to be my least favorite of the remaining GOP candidates and that's saying something.

Even Rubio, a babyfaced automaton that gets bullied by the likes of Chris Christie, is more appealing to me.
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