I will readily admit that I vastly underestimated the stupidity of the GOP.
2016 US Presidential Election Thread IX
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Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
A question, though, is if Trump can still be Trump now that he's the standard bearer and is, in effect, the establishment. As they reign him in, will be retain his FAWK YOU bravado?
That's actually my biggest fear. He will reign himself in (or be reigned in) in an attempt to appeal to a larger audience.
I'm not worried about him losing his populist crowd. Those people are in the boat and will know what he's up to for the most part. What I do worry about is him adding one or two educated, reasonable people.
Hewson
Blue Crack Supplier
I don't know man, Cuban is pretty convincing on Shark Tank
Plus he has already served as POTUS in Sharknado 3.
Oregoropa
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
It's funny how this is supposed to be a comeback.
Damn right he's no Hillary. Trump is an unserious, egomaniacal cult-of-personality national embarrassment. Hillary rubs some people the wrong way, and has some policy ideas whose merits can be debated, but she's actually serious about this stuff.
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Vlad n U 2
Blue Crack Addict
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Trump could only DREAM of taking part in a coup of a foreign country ... until he becomes President ...
Damn right he's no Hillary!
Damn right he's no Hillary!
dazzledbylight
Blue Crack Supplier
this.
dazzledbylight
Blue Crack Supplier
Dbl post
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dazzledbylight
Blue Crack Supplier
Yeah, really! (on the Dems side for me)
Oregoropa
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
Well this is where we part ways. We have different political/world views. I'm too tired tonight to fully retort with a counter-point with you about how Trump has the potential to be a great restorative figure in American History and right now Hillary is the national embarrassment. Someday I will write a full blown op-ed into this thread stating my position. It's cool if you guys-gals will pick it apart like carrion birds. It's an Internet forum where I have been treated civilly despite being an outlier most of the time. And I've learned not to get personal as well. No sense in any of us getting an aneurysm over posts. We need some SOE 'release'. We are all pent up.
Admit it. It is fun to have one Trumpkin on the thread to keep things from getting too stale.
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Salome
you are what you is
Actually, no.
It shows the scary state the world is in.
Not just the US, but all over the place scary muppets who shouldn't lead a dog on a leash, let alone a country, are gaining massive popularity with their biggst selling point being "anti-establishment".
Imagine a business would work like that, when a lack of experience becomes a selling point for high profile positions. It would create absolute chaos.
It's scary, not fun.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
I'm with Salome, it's more scary than anything.
You've been shown he doesn't have the decorum for the office, you've been shown he's a liar, you've been shown that he would deteriorate relationships with allies, you've been shown he's actually a business failure more than a success, you've been shown he's a sexist, you've been shown how he's used racism to gain support, and you've been shown he doesn't have any policy that will work; yet your answer is always the same, 'I don't care'. This is not restorative, this is destructive. When you repetitively answer 'I don't care' to these issues, you are saying I don't care about this country. And it's scary when someone so young has been fooled into this blind anger so much that he's willing to light the match.
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PhilsFan
Blue Crack Addict
Donald Trump raped his wife.
DaveC
Blue Crack Addict
here, let me help you out with this one:
no worries man, you learn something new every day
Vlad n U 2
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I know this is the US thread, but it would be a good idea to have a look at what's happening in Austria at the moment.
Are you on fucking drugs. Most of the world is waiting for your retrograde country of reprobates to hurry the fuck up and elect a woman as a leader because it's not 1700 any more.
Whatever you may say about Hillary, anybody who would cast a vote for Trump ahead of her is somebody who supports racism, domestic violence, economic incompetence, and in general being a cunt to everybody whenever possible. So if that's cool for you, good on you, enjoy your country being a total laughingstock and irrelevancy within a decade.
No shit, it's terrifying.
Oregoropa
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
here, let me help you out with this one:
no worries man, you learn something new every day
You may call me batshit crazy. But your definition is spot on my selection of the word.
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Oregoropa
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
No, you holding?
If I was rich I'd buy you a ticket to come to America. That's the point, the middle class hasn't seen significant wage increases in 15 years. Many don't have enough money to pay for an out of pocket car repair. Insurance premiums keep skyrocketing every year. You may have the answer in your part of the world, still wrought with difficulties.
These Americans are pissed off at politicians in general. They're bucking the established system by supporting Trump and Sanders. Hillary is the poster-child of establishment power. I've yet to meet one person in my circle of friends family that is truly enthusiastic about her.
It's not like half the country listens to Rush Limbaugh everyday and takes their marching orders from him, but many people in their own minds do not like Hillary Clinton one bit. To many people she is an embarrassment and is embarrassing herself even more on the campaign trail.
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Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
while i think voting for Trump is unconscionable, i do appreciate how you conduct yourself in here and it is nice to read differing opinions.
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
NONE of this speaks to how she's an embarrassment though. "Establishment" does not necessarily = "embarrassment".
What plan does dickhead Donald have to increase your salary? How does a man who's been handed everything in his life, and when he did fail walk away from his responsibilities by filing bankruptcy, qualify as someone who is a champion for the middle class? Can you see how that makes absolutely no sense to anyone outside of the world of Breitbart?
Hewson
Blue Crack Supplier
Exactly.
I was at a party for a friend's wife's birthday Saturday night. It was in the very democratic town I grew up in and pretty much every attendee was raised there, most still live there. When the subject of the election came up, everyone in a group of 20 plus said they disliked both candidates. I honestly don't know anyone (outside of this site) who has a favorable opinion of Hillary. People talk about how Trump's candidacy is showing the Republican party how fed up their members are with the status quo. The Democratic party needs to wake up too, cause there's a realistic chance Trump beats her in November, she's that poor of a candidate.
Worst election choice evah.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
People are fired up in both directions about Trump. They misguidedly think he'll do something, I'm not sure what they think he'll do, but he'll do something "great". Or they truly fear what he will do based on history and the fact that he's completely erratic.
Sanders excites people. Many that he should excite, or others that he did excite at one time find his lack of specifics troubling. AND don't be fooled, he would fire up the right if he got the nom. I honestly think if Sanders was a young politician, he or she would be a force to reckon with, they wouldn't win this time around, but they'd start something that with some fine tuning and specifics could be president in the future. I think it's unfortunate that it's happening now with someone who is 74 years old.
Hillary doesn't really excite many in her party, she'll be the practical vote, but she does excite the right. Honestly I think being up against Trump will kind of help her, I think she'll get a lot of anti-Trump votes.
At the end of the day, it's shit choices.
It's cloud 9 dreaming vs meh
vs I could destroy this country
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
If I talk about misogyny, will people respond the same way they do when someone brings up race and Obama? (STOP SAYING I'M RACIST IF I DISAGREE WITH OBAMA)
Because it's an issue (not the only issue, but it is present) here.
Gender is more complex than even race, and there may be something about the power of the presidency -- it's not like being PM, there are real differences -- that makes men (and many women) upset when envisioning a woman in that position.
I know, I know. HRC has been around for 25 years. She's as establishment as they come. She's "unlikeable." She's shrill. Earlier we talked about how much of a bitch she was or wasn't. Remember that?
Is the presidency so inherently alpha that any female candidate would be "unlikeable"?
Because it's an issue (not the only issue, but it is present) here.
Gender is more complex than even race, and there may be something about the power of the presidency -- it's not like being PM, there are real differences -- that makes men (and many women) upset when envisioning a woman in that position.
I know, I know. HRC has been around for 25 years. She's as establishment as they come. She's "unlikeable." She's shrill. Earlier we talked about how much of a bitch she was or wasn't. Remember that?
Is the presidency so inherently alpha that any female candidate would be "unlikeable"?
Oregoropa
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
I'm not sure the details of his specific bankruptcy filings. Businesses and individuals can file for those protections to rectify insurmountable debt. Many middle class Americans are faced with the specter of choosing bankruptcy protection in this day and age. The one type of a debt that cannot be discharged in a personal filing is student loan debt. When asked about his bankruptcies Trump could actually pivot to point out how the middle class has increasingly turned to bankruptcy protection as a last ditch alternative to clean the slate of outrageous medical bills or out of control credit card APRs which skyrocketed after Dodd-Frank. A pox on both the houses of government and big banking. A sign of government meddling causing unforeseen blowback on the Middle Class.
Business bankruptcies seem to be more commonplace. Companies need to reorganize. Some jobs are lost, but many can be saved by not allowing the business to completely shutter its doors.
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BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
Yeah, probably not. The difference between a middle class citizen filing bankruptcy or a small business owner filing bankruptcy and Trump is that most don't ever recover from bankruptcy. Trump walked away owing millions that he'll never have to answer for, jobs were lost, he still kept his 500,000 a month apartment and was personally unscathed.
Not someone who has a clue about the middle class, nor a plan for them.
bobsaget77
Rock n' Roll Doggie
I think you're wrong here.
Female candidates in general would face all kinds of opposition and protest that male candidates would not, but "unlikeable" is not really a general anti-feminist trait as exhibited by those with misogynist tendencies.
If Elizabeth Warren were the nominee, she would be attacked for being a bleeding-heart liberal (there go those gals wanting everyone to have health care, hugs, bunnies and rainbows), but not for being unlikeable. Take somebody a bit out of left field, like say Caroline Kennedy - again she is not unlikeable and my guess is they would attack her for being an entitled princess or some similar thing Rush would come up with.
Hillary is uniquely unlikeable in my opinion. She has a tendency to come across as really, really smug, which is interesting because I see Obama as more professorial and intellectual which a certain segment of society hates, but he (mostly) manages to not come across like he is irritated to be explaining something to the masses yet again. She also comes across as a liar in the sense that she would be willing to do or say whatever it takes - plenty of examples of male politicians who also change their votes whichever way the wind blows. Hell Trump is a much bigger liar and has been branded so.
None of this in any way justifies voting for Trump, but I think that we're really trying to twist ourselves into a pretzel here to explain away Hillary's faults as somehow being the inherent fault of a sexist electorate. Sorry, there is plenty there to dislike without any misogyny. I have many, many highly educated feminist (some even ultra-feminist) friends, not a single one of them thinks much of her, though would all vote for her given the alternative.
Hewson
Blue Crack Supplier
I honestly think "No", for most folks. Obviously there'll always be some who will have that viewpoint, just like some will never vote for Obama or the next non-white candidate. But I think a female candidate can be seen as likeable while still being tough and having leadership qualities, just HRC (and VP wannabe Carly also) can't.
Just needs to be the right candidate, with the right resume and persona.
Would have been interesting to see Condoleeza Rice run back in 2008, and try and break 2 barriers at once, wonder how she'd have fared. I think Republicans might have embraced her (the left definitely not, but it wouldn't have been due to her gender or race)
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