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Old 05-23-2016, 04:44 PM   #106
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hint: alt-130
extra hint: re'sume'
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Old 05-23-2016, 04:44 PM   #107
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If I talk about misogyny, will people respond the same way they do when someone brings up race and Obama? (STOP SAYING I'M RACIST IF I DISAGREE WITH OBAMA)

Because it's an issue (not the only issue, but it is present) here.

Gender is more complex than even race, and there may be something about the power of the presidency -- it's not like being PM, there are real differences -- that makes men (and many women) upset when envisioning a woman in that position.

I know, I know. HRC has been around for 25 years. She's as establishment as they come. She's "unlikeable." She's shrill. Earlier we talked about how much of a bitch she was or wasn't. Remember that?

Is the presidency so inherently alpha that any female candidate would be "unlikeable"?
Don't think so. I liked the takes anitram and Hewson gave.
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Old 05-23-2016, 04:59 PM   #108
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Old 05-23-2016, 05:09 PM   #109
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This article written by Robert Kagan a Republican and former foreign policy advisor to John McCain, who's now become an independent. He denies being a neo-con, but others see him as the role model for all neo-cons. But as he works his way through what appears to be a life-long identity crisis, he's written an Op-Ed about Donald Trump that is dead-on, and truly frightening to think about.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...mepage%2Fstory
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Old 05-23-2016, 05:18 PM   #110
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Old 05-23-2016, 05:23 PM   #111
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Old 05-23-2016, 05:28 PM   #112
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Awe look, BVS and bobsaget77 are... getting along...
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Old 05-23-2016, 05:37 PM   #113
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This article written by Robert Kagan a Republican and former foreign policy advisor to John McCain, who's now become an independent. He denies being a neo-con, but others see him as the role model for all neo-cons. But as he works his way through what appears to be a life-long identity crisis, he's written an Op-Ed about Donald Trump that is dead-on, and truly frightening to think about.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...mepage%2Fstory
It's pretty spot on, but just take a look at the comment section and you'll see that no amount of information will matter; he's just a part of the "establishment" set on taking Trump down.
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Old 05-23-2016, 05:41 PM   #114
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http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-...f-donald-trump

Another article that follows similar pattern
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Old 05-23-2016, 05:49 PM   #115
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Awe look, BVS and bobsaget77 are... getting along...
Shooter is a uniter. He should be the one running for Prez.
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Old 05-23-2016, 06:09 PM   #116
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Shooter is a uniter. He should be the one running for Prez.


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Old 05-23-2016, 06:12 PM   #117
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Don't think so. I liked the takes anitram and Hewson gave.


It's certainly easier that way. I guess we can all agree on the vagueness of "unlikeable."
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Old 05-23-2016, 06:19 PM   #118
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The gender issue makes me question whether or not Clinton is so gung ho about the military because she feels that anything else will make her look weak because she's a woman. But that doesn't make me feel any better about her foreign policy, just sadder about sexism and the state of things.
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Old 05-23-2016, 06:24 PM   #119
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2016 US Presidential Election Thread IX

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The gender issue makes me question whether or not Clinton is so gung ho about the military because she feels that anything else will make her look weak because she's a woman. But that doesn't make me feel any better about her foreign policy, just sadder about sexism and the state of things.


And this gets at where I was trying to go. It's not that people necessarily make consciously sexist choices when they vote, but that structural misogyny shapes the way we understand female politicians, and leadership in general.
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Old 05-23-2016, 06:53 PM   #120
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The gender issue makes me question whether or not Clinton is so gung ho about the military because she feels that anything else will make her look weak because she's a woman. But that doesn't make me feel any better about her foreign policy, just sadder about sexism and the state of things.
Honestly, that wouldn't surprise me. And that's what I find so interesting about the right's reaction to her-given some of the things she's supported that people on the right were all for at one point (or still do support), I would think that would, at the very least, make them think that she might be willing to work with them or something, or at least make them not hate her quite as much. And yet... It reminds me a lot of how the moment Obama dared to support anything the GOP was in favor of, they suddenly decided they didn't like or support it anymore.

And then I think about the GOP's attitudes on various issues of particular importance to women, and their vehement reaction to Hilary doesn't seem all that surprising to me anymore (and mind, I'm speaking about the actual party organization and politicians themselves, not the average voters here).

Do I think everyone who's got issues with Hilary is sexist in their reasoning? Of course not. Just like I don't think everyone who disagrees with Obama is racist. I think anitram and Hewson made some good arguments in their posts about some of the reasons why Hilary might be off-putting to some people, and I don't disagree with those on the left who take issue with things like her supporting the Iraq War, or other issues that the GOP supports and the Democrats don't. Heck, I mentioned months back that the whole thing with Gloria Steinem and Madeleine Albright shaming women who didn't support Hilary was a pretty shitty and bothersome thing to do, and not exactly the smartest way of endearing oneself to female voters.

But when I see someone complain about Hilary being dishonest and untrustworthy, and then mention in the same breath they're voting for Trump, or when I see them go on and on about her scandals while giving male politicians they support more of a pass for doing equally as questionable things (or being accused of them, anyway), or get on her about changing her position on an issue while not being bothered that a male politician did the same (how many times has Trump contradicted himself thus far in this campaign now?)...yeah, I'm probably gonna side-eye them a little.
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